People who participated in the meeting: otavio : Otavio Salvador bubulle : Christian Perrier anibal : Anibal Monsalve Salazar tbm : Martin Michlmayr mace : Miah Gregory franklin : Franklin Piat faw : Felipe Augusto van de Wiel cjwatson : Colin Watson Ryan52 : Ryan Niebur Apologies received from: fjp : Frans pop **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 7 20:59:56 2008 UTC Nov 07 21:00:38 5min for the meeting Nov 07 21:02:01 OK, I'm online Nov 07 21:02:31 who's attending the meeting, apart from /me and otavio? Nov 07 21:02:37 I'm logging here Nov 07 21:02:40 * Ryan52 is Nov 07 21:03:11 * bubulle has changed the topic to: D-I meeting in progress | http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination Nov 07 21:03:13 fjp said he'll come in late Nov 07 21:03:42 faw is not here, apparently Nov 07 21:04:10 * bubulle has changed the topic to: D-I meeting in progress | http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination | Debian Installer - Lenny RC1: blockers and schedule Nov 07 21:04:35 otavio: can you summarize things for RC1? Nov 07 21:05:17 Hello ... Nov 07 21:05:33 For RC1 we have most things done. Nov 07 21:05:46 The most important ones are the announcement related ones Nov 07 21:05:51 ok Nov 07 21:06:02 and Errata Nov 07 21:06:04 that's what listed on the wiki page for the meeting, right? Nov 07 21:06:10 Yes Nov 07 21:06:19 For RC2 we have few things too. Nov 07 21:06:23 "Check missing items in release announcement" Nov 07 21:06:24 But we can talk about them later Nov 07 21:06:52 http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/ReleaseAnnounce Nov 07 21:07:23 I think fjp went over the announcement but we probably need more ppl to re-read it Nov 07 21:07:27 I'd like to say sorry by not been able to properly coordinate the release; I've been completely busy due work and have almost no free time lately Nov 07 21:07:56 bubulle: yes, I guess so; I've done it too few times and I don't recall any missing thing on it. Nov 07 21:08:10 so you consider it to be ready? Nov 07 21:08:28 bubulle: I guess we could contact porters and check for missing new subarches and likem Nov 07 21:08:46 OK, who does that? Nov 07 21:09:19 If someone could take it, I'd thank ... otherwise I'll do. Nov 07 21:09:24 Can someone do that? Nov 07 21:09:56 (silence).... Nov 07 21:10:36 Ah; another missing things is try different installation schemes in all possible architectures. This is the ideal however I do believe it'll going to happen only after we do the release Nov 07 21:10:43 arm and mips are complete. I can email other porters if you want Nov 07 21:11:07 tbm: that would be great Nov 07 21:11:17 well, contact porters task to tbm....congrats, Martin..:-) Nov 07 21:11:22 tbm: do you remember any missing thing in the announcement? Nov 07 21:11:37 I don't know, but I'll check tomorrow Nov 07 21:11:45 tbm: thanks a lot. Nov 07 21:11:50 I think the announcement is ok, more or less (at least the best we can do) Nov 07 21:11:57 We have the errata ... Nov 07 21:12:01 * ospite (~ubuntu@94.160.143.182) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 21:12:04 and website Nov 07 21:12:06 yep, the errata is outdated Nov 07 21:12:37 "Check outdated items in errata and propose a patch in mailing list for it" Nov 07 21:13:51 otavio: ta, will tinker Nov 07 21:14:36 well, about the errata, I think that it should be posted to the list so that ppl who can do some tests will do them Nov 07 21:14:58 bubulle: the errata itself? Nov 07 21:15:04 I think that "General issues after reboot because of UTF-8 default" being inherited from etch can be dropped Nov 07 21:15:47 otavio: yes, posting it to the list could trigger comments in the list. Wild guess, though Nov 07 21:16:14 bubulle: I'm taking a brief looking on it right now ... Nov 07 21:16:16 * bubulle can volunteer to test the Russian install item Nov 07 21:16:18 http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata Nov 07 21:16:30 bubulle: I'll post the updated errata on the mailing list after that Nov 07 21:16:57 bubulle: from the bug log it is fixed in newer apt Nov 07 21:17:03 bubulle: but the bug is not closed yet Nov 07 21:17:03 fjp probably has some hints for the errata. He has a good memory of things..:-) Nov 07 21:17:39 next topic in RC1 preparation stuff: Nov 07 21:17:52 Check source requirement mails items (source packages that are need to be in sync in lenny and sid due GPL and like) Nov 07 21:18:05 * bubulle woders what this means..:-) Nov 07 21:18:15 what? Nov 07 21:18:30 * Ryan52 doesn't understand the source requirements part Nov 07 21:18:44 bubulle: is due the source requirements Nov 07 21:18:45 * bubulle neither...this is in the meeting agenda Nov 07 21:18:57 bubulle: dosfstools is used during the build; not a problem Nov 07 21:19:16 bubulle: linux-2.6 binaries are used and are included in initrd (this is a problem) Nov 07 21:20:06 so, what needs to be done? I still don't really understand..:) Nov 07 21:20:13 bubulle: if we include binaries or like, we need to have same version in testing otherwise we're violating GPL Nov 07 21:20:25 bubulle: since the binary can't be rebuild with the available source Nov 07 21:20:50 bubulle: example syslinux is required to be in sync in lenny, debian-cd Nov 07 21:20:59 bubulle: win32-loader too Nov 07 21:21:19 bubulle: but win32-loader comes from d-i building Nov 07 21:21:21 does this means that some packages have to enter testing? Nov 07 21:21:23 bubulle: and so on Nov 07 21:21:28 bubulle: yes Nov 07 21:21:34 bubulle: they are required Nov 07 21:22:36 otavio: so, for win32-loader, it needs that last version from unstable to be hinted for testing? Nov 07 21:22:38 tbm:
arm: NSLU2 image won't start
Nov 07 21:22:43 tbm: can this be removed? Nov 07 21:23:05 bubulle: yes but current testing one is the one included in the build since it has been uploaded after that. Nov 07 21:23:25 bubulle: so I'll ask for it to be hinted after we release rc1 and start the work for rc2 Nov 07 21:23:59 so, that's not a blocker for rc1? Nov 07 21:24:20 bubulle: no; otherwise we'll delay the release for more then a week Nov 07 21:24:33 bubulle: i do prefer to have it done and do rc2 quickly after that Nov 07 21:24:54 ok Nov 07 21:24:56 bubulle: I believe we can manage to get rc2 done in three weeks Nov 07 21:25:14 we'll see, no? For now we're concentrating on rc1, right? Nov 07 21:25:20 otavio: yes, that's very old Nov 07 21:25:55 otavio: so, that "check source requirement" is more a RC2 blocker? Nov 07 21:26:05 bubulle: yeah Nov 07 21:26:20 * bubulle pushes is down, then Nov 07 21:26:37 "Check missing acks on sources for lenny (kernel, packages building udebs, ...) Nov 07 21:27:59 otavio: you mean here that it's needed to check forgotten things that need a hint? Nov 07 21:28:28 bubulle: yes. I can do that today. Nov 07 21:28:37 bubulle: leave this for me. Nov 07 21:28:55 * otavio sent the first diff about the errata to the ml Nov 07 21:29:35 and final item is "Prepare a diff for website about RC1 release" Nov 07 21:29:58 http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ Nov 07 21:30:19 bubulle: I'd thank if someone could take this one. I can check it and commit; no problem ... Nov 07 21:30:27 Besides, I'm not good with English so ... Nov 07 21:30:53 * sene has quit (Quit: to indo descansar.. fui!) Nov 07 21:31:02 This also means that who is going to do that, should take a look on the release announcement and see if anything needs gramatical fixes and like Nov 07 21:31:08 where is the source file? /me is not very keen about web site maintenance Nov 07 21:31:29 otavio: the release announcement could be reviewed by debian-l10n-english Nov 07 21:31:35 webwml/english/devel/debian-installer Nov 07 21:31:55 bubulle: can you take it? Nov 07 21:32:11 well, if I can commit, yes. Nov 07 21:32:24 bubulle: sure. No problem for me. Nov 07 21:32:37 bubulle: just send the diff for the ml before and wait for an ack Nov 07 21:32:47 what's the full VCS URL? Nov 07 21:33:22 cvs -d:ext:@cvs.debian.org/cvs/webwml Nov 07 21:33:43 ok. I take the web site stuff Nov 07 21:33:57 * bubulle will also deal with debian-l10n-english for the release announcement Nov 07 21:34:01 bubulle: you could commit the errata stuff together then Nov 07 21:34:10 bubulle: I've sent the first diff to the ml Nov 07 21:34:29 bubulle: people should give a feedback ... Nov 07 21:34:37 * otavio hopes Nov 07 21:35:05 don't have too much hope..:) Nov 07 21:35:24 That is what is sad... people have not been active lately :( Nov 07 21:35:35 Well ... that happens ... but is really sad Nov 07 21:35:45 so, what deadline do we choose for all this? Nov 07 21:35:55 Is somewhat like APT; people thinks it just works... Nov 07 21:35:58 Well ... Nov 07 21:36:03 as i said earlier i may be able to put some time in if there are things i can do? Nov 07 21:36:20 mace: you can do a lot ... Nov 07 21:36:24 mace: test test test test Nov 07 21:36:28 mace: specially testing Nov 07 21:36:42 anything in particular? :( Nov 07 21:36:47 :) even Nov 07 21:36:49 mace: this is what I've not been able to do. Trying to reproduce bugs are also very useful Nov 07 21:36:51 * franklin wish there were a checklist Nov 07 21:37:10 franklin: for what to test? there's Nov 07 21:37:22 franklin: there is a checlist Nov 07 21:37:38 installer/doc/devel/release-checklist in D-I SVN Nov 07 21:37:47 franklin: wait: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/devel/release-checklist?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 Nov 07 21:37:51 bubulle: hehe Nov 07 21:38:02 we need to clean it, btw Nov 07 21:38:09 bubulle: yep Nov 07 21:38:14 "pass (rc2)" is very outdated... Nov 07 21:39:03 franklin, mace, others: the best is testing in qemu, virtualbox and such stuff Nov 07 21:39:18 test should be reported to the mailing list, right. Nov 07 21:39:44 I've planned VirtualPC for the WE;) Nov 07 21:40:31 franklin: yes, report to the mailing list. Maybe some specific marker? Nov 07 21:40:36 [RC1 TEST] Nov 07 21:41:10 * angasule has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 07 21:41:19 debian-installer: otavio * r56585 installer/doc/devel/release-checklist: cleanup removing previous tests from etch Nov 07 21:42:01 franklin: the French users around have a very long week-end, right? So a lot of testing.... Nov 07 21:42:06 However real machine testing is really useful and required too. If possible, of corse Nov 07 21:42:17 * faw (~felipe@faw.user.oftc.net) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 21:42:28 faw: hi there, be welcome Nov 07 21:42:51 otavio: i can confirm the netboot image you pointed me at seems to be working ok on a lenovo w500 laptop (beta2 doesn't work due to lack of network support) Nov 07 21:42:58 last RC1-related thing seems to be the install manual Nov 07 21:43:17 mace: awesome; try to find if there's a bug about it and reply to it Nov 07 21:43:26 there is, i raised it. :) Nov 07 21:43:31 ospite, thanks, I'm sorry about the time, bad traffic from University to home :-( Nov 07 21:43:33 ops Nov 07 21:43:37 otavio, ^ Nov 07 21:43:37 fjp followed the string freeze and translation status so he can probably deal with that (/me dislikes taking commitment when people are not around, though) Nov 07 21:43:39 bubulle: this is with with Frans and Felipe ... Nov 07 21:44:01 I'm mainly taking care of auto-building Nov 07 21:44:14 faw: no know failures? Nov 07 21:44:16 Frans is the one taking care of the release Nov 07 21:44:30 faw: any know failure? Nov 07 21:44:41 so far, when it happens I usually contact the affected team :) Nov 07 21:44:54 faw: right so it's clean now? Nov 07 21:45:38 otavio, yes, it is, next Monday is the deadline for translation updates Nov 07 21:45:50 it seems that quite a few teams were lacking behind Nov 07 21:45:50 faw: great. Nov 07 21:46:29 faw: it's probably good to send very last minute reminders this week-end Nov 07 21:46:52 but mayeb Frans was planning to do it. I'd suggest to talk about this when he's back online Nov 07 21:46:53 In this case, we could target rc1 for 11/11; so Frans can upload the manual and we can ping RT to hint it for lenny Nov 07 21:47:26 then we do final CD builds and release in end of week. Nov 07 21:47:35 so, we need to complete the release announcement, errata and website before end of 11/10? Nov 07 21:47:38 by 14/11 Nov 07 21:48:37 The ideal time would have it all done by 11/11 but the announce would require to wait for final CD building. I've did a tasksel upload today with Frans fix for GNOME task. Nov 07 21:48:49 OK. So, do we have anything left to discuss wrt RC1? Nov 07 21:48:58 We usually need 2 days for CD building Nov 07 21:49:11 so 14/11 looks like a realistic date Nov 07 21:49:45 (present, BTW, belatedly) Nov 07 21:49:54 For RC1 I think we're done. I do not recall of anything Nov 07 21:49:58 belatedly? Nov 07 21:50:06 late for the start of the meeting Nov 07 21:50:18 ahh ok, :-) Nov 07 21:50:20 be welcome Nov 07 21:50:31 cjwatson: do you remember any blocker for rc1? Nov 07 21:50:41 in short, we went around the "prepare RC1' things on the meeting agenda Nov 07 21:50:44 cjwatson: could you look at ppc errata notes and see if anything can be droped? Nov 07 21:50:55 I can look but I'll be guessing Nov 07 21:51:23 Can we talk about RC2 then? Nov 07 21:51:28 yes Nov 07 21:51:30 * nifan (~nifan@be2-84-91-63-132.netvisao.pt) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 21:51:45 Well; win32-loader needs to go to lenny Nov 07 21:51:53 - kernel needs updating Nov 07 21:51:57 we have no items listed on the meeting agenda except "Prepare RC2: identify what needs to be done" Nov 07 21:52:23 - l-m-e-2.6 needs fixing due virtualbox version missmatch (did not check if it has been fixed or not) Nov 07 21:52:29 no ABI change on kernel, right (taken from Frans words in the ML)? Nov 07 21:52:44 - fix any discovered critical bug in rc1 Nov 07 21:52:51 bubulle: yes, right Nov 07 21:53:23 otavio: I believe the floppy item is still valid; the snd-powermac item was always slightly wrong as we do still load it on some systems - perhaps "is no longer loaded by default on all PowerMac systems as it can cause lock-ups on some models; you may need to add it to /etc/modules manually" Nov 07 21:53:51 cjwatson: could you mail it above my message to the ml with the diff? Nov 07 21:54:06 ok Nov 07 21:54:11 cjwatson: thanks a lot :-) Nov 07 21:54:41 - check source packages that need to go to lenny due GPL Nov 07 21:54:58 other than win32-loader, then? Nov 07 21:55:04 you mentioned syslinux Nov 07 21:55:39 bubulle: I cited them as example; there're many of them. Frans has sent a list to the ml long time ago and also prepared a script to summarise them Nov 07 21:56:34 * otavio runs it locally to post an updated list Nov 07 21:57:06 otavio: this is "check-compliance"? Nov 07 21:57:12 bubulle: yes Nov 07 21:58:57 don't we have a problem with dosfstools? Nov 07 21:59:15 bubulle: not that I'm aware of Nov 07 22:00:02 otavio: OK, so you'll post an updated list and a summary of what needs to be done? Nov 07 22:00:31 bubulle: I can take this one. Nov 07 22:01:03 bubulle: I'd appreciate help preparing announcement, website and errata for RC2 but this needs to wait for RC1 to be out to be done. Nov 07 22:01:13 I think we should skip the remaining of the agenda now. Talking about post-lenny development is really pointless right now Nov 07 22:01:23 bubulle: I agree. Nov 07 22:02:06 I'll probably be able to continue for RA, errata and website if I manage to do it for RC1 (I'm not so sure that I'll do it well, but I think fjp will be looking over my shoulder) Nov 07 22:02:40 bubulle: please, ping me if you need any help. Nov 07 22:02:54 I think we're more or less done right now. We should maybe schedule a small meeting on Now 10th or 11th to see where we are then Nov 07 22:03:06 next meeting date? Nov 07 22:03:06 This way it is much easier to take the release. Nov 07 22:03:24 * tiagovaz has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds) Nov 07 22:03:39 I'd agree on that. I believe 11/11 is better since installer manual should have been already uploaded and like. Nov 07 22:03:58 11/11 is fine by me Nov 07 22:03:59 So we can check if anything is missing and probably get a real release date Nov 07 22:04:10 It works for me too. Nov 07 22:04:21 same time? Nov 07 22:04:23 anibal: Can you schedule it? Nov 07 22:04:29 fine by me Nov 07 22:04:35 okay Nov 07 22:04:56 ok. anibal: did you log (I did anyway)? Nov 07 22:05:01 yep Nov 07 22:05:05 i did Nov 07 22:05:17 it would be good if a small summary is done also Nov 07 22:05:17 Do someone have any comment? Nov 07 22:05:29 I'll prepare the minutes Nov 07 22:05:32 bubulle: anibal said he is going to do that. Nov 07 22:05:36 anibal: thanks a lot. Nov 07 22:05:40 Just a missing thing Nov 07 22:06:06 I'd like to propose we form a team for the release management, from now on. Nov 07 22:06:25 cjwatson: would be good if you can check whether you have some Ubuntu stuff that you'd like to see in RC2 Nov 07 22:06:39 bubulle: good point :-) Nov 07 22:06:59 What people things about it? Nov 07 22:07:04 I have a bunch of stuff I'm itching to commit, but I think I'd rather it be after lenny Nov 07 22:07:35 cjwatson: After we do RC1, I'll send a mail and open svn for post-lenny changes Nov 07 22:07:51 otavio: team with more identified tasks (such as what we just did) could be good, yes Nov 07 22:07:55 cjwatson: but SVN is horrible to manager branches so ... I've not done it yet. Nov 07 22:07:57 I will keep an eye on possible changes, but nearly everything I've committed lately seems to have ended up causing some weird unexpected problem, so I'd rather not push anything non-trivial Nov 07 22:08:03 bubulle: yes. Nov 07 22:08:14 I've pissed fjp off quite enough, I feel :-) Nov 07 22:08:25 saying that "release announcement is kept up-to-date by ", "errata is managed by " and the like Nov 07 22:08:27 cjwatson: hehe Nov 07 22:09:07 however, as fjp pointed, there's still a need for an identified RM who coordinates the stuff. Nov 07 22:09:16 bubulle: release announcement should be manage by whole team. People just need to get used to add a item for the change on it when commiting. Nov 07 22:10:14 * path (~path@pc-90-96-47-190.cm.vtr.net) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 22:10:21 hmmm, well, the RA person could be someone monotoring what's happening on the mailing list and constantly asking "hey, dude, does this deserve to be in the release announcement".... Nov 07 22:10:33 bubulle: I have enough time to coordinate it but I don't to do long tasks like preparing release announcement and errata updates. Not the way it is done nowadays since we basically need to go through all backlog and check if anything has been forgotten ... Nov 07 22:10:55 bubulle: this works too. Nov 07 22:11:08 well, as we're short on resource, we also can do less perfect things than we did in the past, you know Nov 07 22:11:21 bubulle: wants to join for it? (obviously after rc1) Nov 07 22:11:22 joeyh, then fjp raised the bar very high Nov 07 22:11:47 yes. there're amazing Nov 07 22:11:57 yep, I could invest a few more time on things like this Nov 07 22:12:12 unfortunately I don't have same time available for this. Nov 07 22:12:56 Debian Installer is not used in work anymore (not as it used to be) and then I've not been able to put too much time on that all. Nov 07 22:13:09 for post-lenny, I'll keep the i18n thing and I can probably re-put some time for RA/errata management Nov 07 22:13:33 bubulle: that would be awesome. That could allow us to do more frequent releases Nov 07 22:13:40 OK, I have to go now (sleep is catching me!)..... Nov 07 22:13:46 bubulle: np Nov 07 22:13:54 bubulle: thanks a lot. Nov 07 22:14:46 * streuner_ (~streuner@p54A5F08E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 22:15:00 and, last word, I really hope that some of the people who are lurking around will become mor eactive in D-I. /me plans to blog soon about the shortcomings we have faced during etch->lenny Nov 07 22:16:03 D-I is very close to a critical state where it basically could fade slowly if the project and more Debian devels and contributors don't react strongly. Nov 07 22:16:20 that said, Zzzzz..:-) Nov 07 22:16:39 I've learned not to make any promises, but I have hopes and good intentions; will see Nov 07 22:16:59 me too Nov 07 22:17:08 I can contribute time post lenny...most of the stuff discussed at this meeting was pretty much impossible for me to help with, though. Nov 07 22:17:30 release meetings tend to be a difficult place to start for most projects Nov 07 22:17:40 ;-) Nov 07 22:17:45 :) Nov 07 22:18:27 hehe Nov 07 22:19:00 If people lay around in the ml and start to manage installation reports, test and reproducing bugs ... it would rock! Nov 07 22:19:23 And this is the first step to start helping to really fix issues Nov 07 22:19:35 And then receive commit right and join to the team. :-) Nov 07 22:19:59 Ryan52: franklin: I dare you both to do that :P You buy it? Nov 07 22:20:03 lol Nov 07 22:20:04 :-) Nov 07 22:20:51 okay! :D Nov 07 22:21:01 * Ryan52 can't resist a dare :P Nov 07 22:21:14 :-D Nov 07 22:21:15 yep. as cjwatson mentioned no promises, but good intentions... Nov 07 22:21:28 That's fine. :-) Nov 07 22:21:42 * otavio start to look at source requirements Nov 07 22:22:48 * franklin has to bake cookies tomorrow... and do some pre-rc1 testing Nov 07 22:23:49 good night. Nov 07 22:24:54 franklin: good night Nov 07 22:32:05 * elmig (~elmig@229.95.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 22:36:05 * tiagovaz (~tiago@189.105.189.254) has joined #debian-boot Nov 07 22:46:32 tbm: there? Nov 07 22:46:44 tbm: why apex-nslu2 is required for d-i building? Nov 07 23:22:07 * fjp (~fjp@ip545593b6.speed.planet.nl) has joined #debian-boot