Log from the Debian Installer team meeting of November 7th 2008, 21:00UTC ------------------------------------------------------------------------ People who speak below: otavio : Otavio Salvador anibal : Anibal Monsalve Salazar bubulle : Christian Perrier Ryan52 : Ryan Niebur tbm : Martin Michlmayr mace : Miah Gregory franklin : Franklin Piat faw : Felipe Augusto van de Wiel cjwatson : Colin Watson People whose nicknames are mentioned during the meeting but not present: fjp : Frans Pop Hours are European Time (UTC +0100): 22:00 < otavio> 5min for the meeting 22:02 < bubulle> OK, I'm online 22:02 < bubulle> who's attending the meeting, apart from /me and otavio? 22:02 < anibal> I'm logging here 22:02 * Ryan52 is 22:03 -!- bubulle changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I meeting in progress | http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination 22:03 < anibal> fjp`, said he'll come in late 22:03 < bubulle> faw is not here, apparently 22:04 -!- bubulle changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I meeting in progress | http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination | Debian Installer - Lenny RC1: blockers and schedule 22:04 < bubulle> otavio: can you summarize things for RC1? 22:05 < otavio> Hello ... 22:05 < otavio> For RC1 we have most things done. 22:05 < otavio> The most important ones are the announcement related ones 22:05 < bubulle> ok 22:06 < otavio> and Errata 22:06 < bubulle> that's what listed on the wiki page for the meeting, right? 22:06 < otavio> Yes 22:06 < otavio> For RC2 we have few things too. 22:06 < bubulle> "Check missing items in release announcement" 22:06 < otavio> But we can talk about them later 22:06 < bubulle> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/ReleaseAnnounce 22:07 < bubulle> I think fjp went over the announcement but we probably need more ppl to re-read it 22:07 < otavio> I'd like to say sorry by not been able to properly coordinate the release; I've been completely busy due work and have almost no free time lately 22:07 < otavio> bubulle: yes, I guess so; I've done it too few times and I don't recall any missing thing on it. 22:08 < bubulle> so you consider it to be ready? 22:08 < otavio> bubulle: I guess we could contact porters and check for missing new subarches and likem 22:08 < bubulle> OK, who does that? 22:09 < otavio> If someone could take it, I'd thank ... otherwise I'll do. 22:09 < otavio> Can someone do that? 22:09 < bubulle> (silence).... 22:10 < otavio> Ah; another missing things is try different installation schemes in all possible architectures. This is the ideal however I do believe it'll going to happen only after we do the release 22:10 < tbm> arm and mips are complete. I can email other porters if you want 22:11 < otavio> tbm: that would be great 22:11 < bubulle> well, contact porters task to tbm....congrats, Martin..:-) 22:11 < otavio> tbm: do you remember any missing thing in the announcement? 22:11 < tbm> I don't know, but I'll check tomorrow 22:11 < otavio> tbm: thanks a lot. 22:11 < bubulle> I think the announcement is ok, more or less (at least the best we can do) 22:11 < otavio> We have the errata ... 22:12 < otavio> and website 22:12 < bubulle> yep, the errata is outdated 22:12 < bubulle> "Check outdated items in errata and propose a patch in mailing list for it" 22:13 < mace> otavio: ta, will tinker 22:14 < bubulle> well, about the errata, I think that it should be posted to the list so that ppl who can do some tests will do them 22:14 < otavio> bubulle: the errata itself? 22:15 < bubulle> I think that "General issues after reboot because of UTF-8 default" being inherited from etch can be dropped 22:15 < bubulle> otavio: yes, posting it to the list could trigger comments in the list. Wild guess, though 22:16 < otavio> bubulle: I'm taking a brief looking on it right now ... 22:16 * bubulle can volunteer to test the Russian install item 22:16 < anibal> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata 22:16 < otavio> bubulle: I'll post the updated errata on the mailing list after that 22:16 < otavio> bubulle: from the bug log it is fixed in newer apt 22:17 < otavio> bubulle: but the bug is not closed yet 22:17 < bubulle> fjp probably has some hints for the errata. He has a good memory of things..:-) 22:17 < bubulle> next topic in RC1 preparation stuff: 22:17 < bubulle> Check source requirement mails items (source packages that are need to be in sync in lenny and sid due GPL and like) 22:18 * bubulle woders what this means..:-) 22:18 < Ryan52> what? 22:18 * Ryan52 doesn't understand the source requirements part 22:18 < otavio> bubulle: is due the source requirements 22:18 * bubulle neither...this is in the meeting agenda 22:18 < otavio> bubulle: dosfstools is used during the build; not a problem 22:19 < otavio> bubulle: linux-2.6 binaries are used and are included in initrd (this is a problem) 22:20 < bubulle> so, what needs to be done? I still don't really understand..:) 22:20 < otavio> bubulle: if we include binaries or like, we need to have same version in testing otherwise we're violating GPL 22:20 < otavio> bubulle: since the binary can't be rebuild with the available source 22:20 < otavio> bubulle: example syslinux is required to be in sync in lenny, debian-cd 22:20 < otavio> bubulle: win32-loader too 22:21 < otavio> bubulle: but win32-loader comes from d-i building 22:21 < bubulle> does this means that some packages have to enter testing? 22:21 < otavio> bubulle: and so on 22:21 < otavio> bubulle: yes 22:21 < anibal> d-i needs a source repo somewhere? 22:21 < otavio> bubulle: they are required 22:21 < otavio> anibal: ?? 22:22 < bubulle> otavio: so, for win32-loader, it needs that last version from unstable to be hinted for testing? 22:22 < otavio> tbm:
arm: NSLU2 image won't start
22:22 < otavio> tbm: can this be removed? 22:23 < otavio> bubulle: yes but current testing one is the one included in the build since it has been uploaded after that. 22:23 < otavio> bubulle: so I'll ask for it to be hinted after we release rc1 and start the work for rc2 22:23 < bubulle> so, that's not a blocker for rc1? 22:24 < otavio> bubulle: no; otherwise we'll delay the release for more then a week 22:24 < otavio> bubulle: i do prefer to have it done and do rc2 quickly after that 22:24 < bubulle> ok 22:24 < otavio> bubulle: I believe we can manage to get rc2 done in three weeks 22:25 < bubulle> we'll see, no? For now we're concentrating on rc1, right? 22:25 < tbm> otavio: yes, that's very old 22:25 < bubulle> otavio: so, that "check source requirement" is more a RC2 blocker? 22:26 < otavio> bubulle: yeah 22:26 * bubulle pushes is down, then 22:26 < bubulle> "Check missing acks on sources for lenny (kernel, packages building udebs, ...) 22:27 < bubulle> otavio: you mean here that it's needed to check forgotten things that need a hint? 22:28 < otavio> bubulle: yes. I can do that today. 22:28 < otavio> bubulle: leave this for me. 22:28 * otavio sent the first diff about the errata to the ml 22:29 < bubulle> and final item is "Prepare a diff for website about RC1 release" 22:29 < bubulle> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ 22:30 < otavio> bubulle: I'd thank if someone could take this one. I can check it and commit; no problem ... 22:30 < otavio> Besides, I'm not good with English so ... 22:31 < otavio> This also means that who is going to do that, should take a look on the release announcement and see if anything needs gramatical fixes and like 22:31 < bubulle> where is the source file? /me is not very keen about web site maintenance 22:31 < bubulle> otavio: the release announcement could be reviewed by debian-l10n-english 22:31 < otavio> webwml/english/devel/debian-installer 22:31 < otavio> bubulle: can you take it? 22:32 < bubulle> well, if I can commit, yes. 22:32 < otavio> bubulle: sure. No problem for me. 22:32 < otavio> bubulle: just send the diff for the ml before and wait for an ack 22:32 < bubulle> what's the full VCS URL? 22:33 < otavio> cvs -d:ext:@cvs.debian.org/cvs/webwml 22:33 < bubulle> ok. I take the web site stuff 22:33 * bubulle will also deal with debian-l10n-english for the release announcement 22:34 < otavio> bubulle: you could commit the errata stuff together then 22:34 < otavio> bubulle: I've sent the first diff to the ml 22:34 < otavio> bubulle: people should give a feedback ... 22:34 * otavio hopes 22:35 < bubulle> don't have too much hope..:) 22:35 < otavio> That is what is sad... people have not been active lately :( 22:35 < otavio> Well ... that happens ... but is really sad 22:35 < bubulle> so, what deadline do we choose for all this? 22:35 < otavio> Is somewhat like APT; people thinks it just works... 22:35 < otavio> Well ... 22:36 < mace> as i said earlier i may be able to put some time in if there are things i can do? 22:36 < otavio> mace: you can do a lot ... 22:36 < bubulle> mace: test test test test 22:36 < otavio> mace: specially testing 22:36 < mace> anything in particular? :( 22:36 < mace> :) even 22:36 < otavio> mace: this is what I've not been able to do. Trying to reproduce bugs are also very useful 22:36 * franklin wish there were a checklist 22:37 < otavio> franklin: for what to test? there's 22:37 < bubulle> franklin: there is a checlist 22:37 < bubulle> installer/doc/devel/release-checklist in D-I SVN 22:37 < otavio> franklin: wait: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/devel/release-checklist?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 22:37 < otavio> bubulle: hehe 22:38 < bubulle> we need to clean it, btw 22:38 < otavio> bubulle: yep 22:38 < bubulle> "pass (rc2)" is very outdated... 22:39 < bubulle> franklin, mace, others: the best is testing in qemu, virtualbox and such stuff 22:39 < franklin> test should be reported to the mailing list, right. 22:39 < franklin> I've planned VirtualPC for the WE;) 22:40 < bubulle> franklin: yes, report to the mailing list. Maybe some specific marker? 22:40 < bubulle> [RC1 TEST] 22:41 < CIA-6> debian-installer: otavio * r56585 installer/doc/devel/release-checklist: cleanup removing previous tests from etch 22:42 < bubulle> franklin: the French users around have a very long week-end, right? So a lot of testing.... 22:42 < otavio> However real machine testing is really useful and required too. If possible, of corse 22:42 < otavio> faw: hi there, be welcome 22:42 < mace> otavio: i can confirm the netboot image you pointed me at seems to be working ok on a lenovo w500 laptop (beta2 doesn't work due to lack of network support) 22:42 < bubulle> last RC1-related thing seems to be the install manual 22:43 < otavio> mace: awesome; try to find if there's a bug about it and reply to it 22:43 < mace> there is, i raised it. :) 22:43 < faw> ospite, thanks, I'm sorry about the time, bad traffic from University to home :-( 22:43 < faw> ops 22:43 < faw> otavio, ^ 22:43 < bubulle> fjp followed the string freeze and translation status so he can probably deal with that (/me dislikes taking commitment when people are not around, though) 22:43 < otavio> bubulle: this is with with Frans and Felipe ... 22:44 < faw> I'm mainly taking care of auto-building 22:44 < otavio> faw: no know failures? 22:44 < faw> Frans is the one taking care of the release 22:44 < otavio> faw: any know failure? 22:44 < faw> so far, when it happens I usually contact the affected team :) 22:44 < otavio> faw: right so it's clean now? 22:45 < faw> otavio, yes, it is, next Monday is the deadline for translation updates 22:45 < faw> it seems that quite a few teams were lacking behind 22:45 < otavio> faw: great. 22:46 < bubulle> faw: it's probably good to send very last minute reminders this week-end 22:46 < bubulle> but mayeb Frans was planning to do it. I'd suggest to talk about this when he's back online 22:46 < otavio> In this case, we could target rc1 for 11/11; so Frans can upload the manual and we can ping RT to hint it for lenny 22:47 < otavio> then we do final CD builds and release in end of week. 22:47 < bubulle> so, we need to complete the release announcement, errata and website before end of 11/10? 22:47 < otavio> by 14/11 22:48 < otavio> The ideal time would have it all done by 11/11 but the announce would require to wait for final CD building. I've did a tasksel upload today with Frans fix for GNOME task. 22:48 < bubulle> OK. So, do we have anything left to discuss wrt RC1? 22:48 < otavio> We usually need 2 days for CD building 22:49 < otavio> so 14/11 looks like a realistic date 22:49 < cjwatson> (present, BTW, belatedly) 22:49 < otavio> For RC1 I think we're done. I do not recall of anything 22:49 < otavio> belatedly? 22:50 < cjwatson> late for the start of the meeting 22:50 < otavio> ahh ok, :-) 22:50 < otavio> be welcome 22:50 < otavio> cjwatson: do you remember any blocker for rc1? 22:50 < bubulle> in short, we went around the "prepare RC1' things on the meeting agenda 22:50 < otavio> cjwatson: could you look at ppc errata notes and see if anything can be droped? 22:50 < cjwatson> I can look but I'll be guessing 22:51 < otavio> Can we talk about RC2 then? 22:51 < bubulle> yes 22:51 < otavio> Well; win32-loader needs to go to lenny 22:51 < otavio> - kernel needs updating 22:51 < bubulle> we have no items listed on the meeting agenda except "Prepare RC2: identify what needs to be done" 22:52 < otavio> - l-m-e-2.6 needs fixing due virtualbox version missmatch (did not check if it has been fixed or not) 22:52 < bubulle> no ABI change on kernel, right (taken from Frans words in the ML)? 22:52 < otavio> - fix any discovered critical bug in rc1 22:52 < otavio> bubulle: yes, right 22:53 < cjwatson> otavio: I believe the floppy item is still valid; the snd-powermac item was always slightly wrong as we do still load it on some systems - perhaps "is no longer loaded by default on all PowerMac systems as it can cause lock-ups on some models; you may need to add it to /etc/modules manually" 22:53 < otavio> cjwatson: could you mail it above my message to the ml with the diff? 22:54 < cjwatson> ok 22:54 < otavio> cjwatson: thanks a lot :-) 22:54 < otavio> - check source packages that need to go to lenny due GPL 22:54 < bubulle> other than win32-loader, then? 22:55 < bubulle> you mentioned syslinux 22:55 < otavio> bubulle: I cited them as example; there're many of them. Frans has sent a list to the ml long time ago and also prepared a script to summarise them 22:56 * otavio runs it locally to post an updated list 22:57 < bubulle> otavio: this is "check-compliance"? 22:57 < otavio> bubulle: yes 22:58 < bubulle> don't we have a problem with dosfstools? 22:59 < otavio> bubulle: not that I'm aware of 23:00 < bubulle> otavio: OK, so you'll post an updated list and a summary of what needs to be done? 23:00 < otavio> bubulle: I can take this one. 23:01 < otavio> bubulle: I'd appreciate help preparing announcement, website and errata for RC2 but this needs to wait for RC1 to be out to be done. 23:01 < bubulle> I think we should skip the remaining of the agenda now. Talking about post-lenny development is really pointless right now 23:01 < otavio> bubulle: I agree. 23:02 < bubulle> I'll probably be able to continue for RA, errata and website if I manage to do it for RC1 (I'm not so sure that I'll do it well, but I think fjp will be looking over my shoulder) 23:02 < otavio> bubulle: please, ping me if you need any help. 23:02 < bubulle> I think we're more or less done right now. We should maybe schedule a small meeting on Now 10th or 11th to see where we are then 23:03 < anibal> next meeting date? 23:03 < otavio> This way it is much easier to take the release. 23:03 < otavio> I'd agree on that. I believe 11/11 is better since installer manual should have been already uploaded and like. 23:03 < bubulle> 11/11 is fine by me 23:03 < otavio> So we can check if anything is missing and probably get a real release date 23:04 < otavio> It works for me too. 23:04 < bubulle> same time? 23:04 < otavio> anibal: Can you schedule it? 23:04 < otavio> fine by me 23:04 < anibal> okay 23:04 < bubulle> ok. anibal: did you log (I did anyway)? 23:05 < anibal> yep 23:05 < anibal> i did 23:05 < bubulle> it would be good if a small summary is done also 23:05 < otavio> Do someone have any comment? 23:05 < anibal> I'll prepare the minutes 23:05 < otavio> bubulle: anibal said he is going to do that. 23:05 < otavio> anibal: thanks a lot. 23:05 < otavio> Just a missing thing 23:06 < otavio> I'd like to propose we form a team for the release management, from now on. 23:06 < bubulle> cjwatson: would be good if you can check whether you have some Ubuntu stuff that you'd like to see in RC2 23:06 < otavio> bubulle: good point :-) 23:06 < otavio> What people things about it? 23:07 < cjwatson> I have a bunch of stuff I'm itching to commit, but I think I'd rather it be after lenny 23:07 < otavio> cjwatson: After we do RC1, I'll send a mail and open svn for post-lenny changes 23:07 < bubulle> otavio: team with more identified tasks (such as what we just did) could be good, yes 23:07 < otavio> cjwatson: but SVN is horrible to manager branches so ... I've not done it yet. 23:07 < cjwatson> I will keep an eye on possible changes, but nearly everything I've committed lately seems to have ended up causing some weird unexpected problem, so I'd rather not push anything non-trivial 23:08 < otavio> bubulle: yes. 23:08 < cjwatson> I've pissed fjp off quite enough, I feel :-) 23:08 < bubulle> saying that "release announcement is kept up-to-date by ", "errata is managed by " and the like 23:08 < otavio> cjwatson: hehe 23:09 < bubulle> however, as fjp pointed, there's still a need for an identified RM who coordinates the stuff. 23:09 < otavio> bubulle: release announcement should be manage by whole team. People just need to get used to add a item for the change on it when commiting. 23:10 < bubulle> hmmm, well, the RA person could be someone monotoring what's happening on the mailing list and constantly asking "hey, dude, does this deserve to be in the release announcement".... 23:10 < otavio> bubulle: I have enough time to coordinate it but I don't to do long tasks like preparing release announcement and errata updates. Not the way it is done nowadays since we basically need to go through all backlog and check if anything has been forgotten ... 23:10 < otavio> bubulle: this works too. 23:11 < bubulle> well, as we're short on resource, we also can do less perfect things than we did in the past, you know 23:11 < otavio> bubulle: wants to join for it? (obviously after rc1) 23:11 < bubulle> joeyh, then fjp raised the bar very high 23:11 < otavio> yes. there're amazing 23:11 < bubulle> yep, I could invest a few more time on things like this 23:12 < otavio> unfortunately I don't have same time available for this. 23:12 < otavio> Debian Installer is not used in work anymore (not as it used to be) and then I've not been able to put too much time on that all. 23:13 < bubulle> for post-lenny, I'll keep the i18n thing and I can probably re-put some time for RA/errata management 23:13 < otavio> bubulle: that would be awesome. That could allow us to do more frequent releases 23:13 < bubulle> OK, I have to go now (sleep is catching me!)..... 23:13 < otavio> bubulle: np 23:13 < otavio> bubulle: thanks a lot. 23:15 < bubulle> and, last word, I really hope that some of the people who are lurking around will become mor eactive in D-I. /me plans to blog soon about the shortcomings we have faced during etch->lenny 23:16 < bubulle> D-I is very close to a critical state where it basically could fade slowly if the project and more Debian devels and contributors don't react strongly. 23:16 < bubulle> that said, Zzzzz..:-) 23:16 < cjwatson> I've learned not to make any promises, but I have hopes and good intentions; will see 23:16 < franklin> me too 23:17 < Ryan52> I can contribute time post lenny...most of the stuff discussed at this meeting was pretty much impossible for me to help with, though. 23:17 < cjwatson> release meetings tend to be a difficult place to start for most projects 23:17 < franklin> ;-) 23:17 < Ryan52> :) 23:18 < otavio> hehe 23:19 < otavio> If people lay around in the ml and start to manage installation reports, test and reproducing bugs ... it would rock! 23:19 < otavio> And this is the first step to start helping to really fix issues 23:19 < otavio> And then receive commit right and join to the team. :-) 23:19 < otavio> Ryan52: franklin: I dare you both to do that :P You buy it? 23:20 < otavio> lol 23:20 < otavio> :-) 23:20 < Ryan52> okay! :D 23:21 * Ryan52 can't resist a dare :P 23:21 < otavio> :-D 23:21 < franklin> yep. as cjwatson mentioned no promises, but good intentions... 23:21 < otavio> That's fine. :-) 23:21 * otavio start to look at source requirements 23:22 * franklin has to bake cookies tomorrow... and do some pre-rc1 testing 23:23 < franklin> good night. 23:24 < otavio> franklin: good night