--- Log opened Sat Mar 10 15:04:16 2007 15:04:16 -!- peterS [~m|ptrS|@adsl-71-158-217-148.dsl.wchtks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:04:16 -!- Irssi: #debian-dpl-discuss: Total of 58 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 57 normal] 15:04:16 -!- Irssi: Join to #debian-dpl-discuss was synced in 0 secs 15:06:26 -!- herbert [~herbert@N754P030.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 15:08:28 -!- cuvy_ [~chatzilla@pD9E84684.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:12:06 -!- curt [~curt@adsl-70-228-83-174.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] 15:12:17 -!- curt [~curt@adsl-70-228-83-174.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:12:22 -!- davrieb [~davrieb@b-143.dsl.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:12:37 -!- broonie [broonie@cassiel.sirena.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:12:38 -!- cortana [~sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:13:08 -!- don_inlab [~don@rzlab.ucr.edu] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:13:11 -!- mode/#debian-dpl-discuss [+o don_inlab] by ChanServ 15:15:05 peterS: you should give us your irssi split window cheat sheet again, like last year :) 15:15:37 -!- dondelelcaro is now known as don_armstrong 15:16:25 -!- kevinoid [~kevin@cpe-24-92-253-74.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:16:31 -!- don_inlab is now known as dondelelcaro 15:17:57 stew: I don't remember what I said in the cheat sheet. but hmmm. 15:19:39 stew not cheating ;) 15:19:51 -!- jatt [~user@pD9E9F9F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:20:11 somehow I thought the channel was muted 15:20:25 the other one (#debian-dpl-debate) is moderated, yes 15:20:34 ok its just /window new ; /window move {up,down} 15:20:38 -!- slef [~mjr@g.towers.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:20:41 and try not to type into the wrong window :) 15:20:52 ok 15:21:10 oh but it's much funnier if you do 15:21:29 damnit, how do I cycle tabs in TalkSoup?!? 15:22:24 yeah how to split: '/win new' to create a new window. '/win move up' and '/win move down' to move channels around. once a window becomes empty because all channels have been moved out of it or closed, it disappears. '/win balance' to resize all windows to the same size, if they aren't. channels stay in the window they have been moved into, so /win NN and 15:22:47 ...so '/win NN' and ^N ^P etc. have the effect of moving your focus up or down corresponding to where a given channel lives 15:23:00 (preceding lecture is for irssi) 15:23:32 -!- aj is now known as AnthonyTowns 15:23:40 -!- SteveMcIntyre [steve@lump.einval.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:23:44 hey folks 15:24:02 hi 15:24:36 ah, alt-j and alt-k 15:24:41 so , do you already have your first few questions or should we start submitting ours for consideration? 15:24:55 another irssi tip: /ignore #debian-dpl-debate JOINS PARTS QUITS 15:25:09 should cut down on the noise you see during the debate 15:25:11 curt: 1mo, I need to remember how the debate will work :) 15:25:19 you just have to use a GUI client like xchat and stop worrying about lots of tricks and key combinations 15:25:31 "tree view" is the bomb 15:25:44 Leibsle: TalkSoup is gui, but this will be hectic enough that I'll need keys, I expect 15:25:58 Leibsle: also I don't trust xchat. They accept patches from utter morons like slef. 15:26:00 -!- buxy is now known as RaphaelHertzog 15:26:10 heh 15:26:56 Three candidates still missing :) 15:27:07 (setq erc-hide-list '("JOIN" "PART" "QUIT")) 15:27:22 Oh -- good evening (or whichever part of the day currently suits you) to you, fellow debianites :) 15:27:25 -!- canvon [zzz@arara.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:27:26 jatt: is that buffer-local to #debian-dpl-debate? 15:27:40 slef: "If Groucho was a free software hacker..." ? 15:27:41 my #1 Q - what is the most important thing to you that you would like to or will try to change about debian as DPL? 15:28:12 -!- Maulkin [~maulkin@maulkin.netrep.oftc.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:28:40 -!- Toni [~toni@85.187.222.103] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:28:45 * Maulkin waves 15:28:56 * LightKnight bounces :) 15:29:15 -!- danielsan [~daniel@leary.ping.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:29:24 peterS: I have it in my .emacs and seems to be set for all erc channel buffers 15:29:28 -!- padski_ [~padski@ip-81-1-116-48.cust.homechoice.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:29:33 -!- padski [~padski@ip-81-1-116-48.cust.homechoice.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] 15:29:35 jatt: ahhh, that's how you live all the time then 15:29:38 -!- Ig [~ian@chaos.earth.li] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:29:44 yes :) 15:29:47 curt: relayed 15:30:22 -!- arneb [~arneb@p5484C957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:30:37 jatt, so you are a true disciple of the church of emacs? 15:31:32 are enough people logging the debate channel? 15:32:26 -!- dam_ [~dam@87.120.174.33] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:32:52 I don't know how many is "enough". I auto-log all irc traffic 15:33:02 * SteveMcIntyre oo 15:33:03 * Ganneff logs all channels, always 15:33:04 too 15:33:09 and know that many others do that too 15:33:16 (most irc traffic is useless, but disk space is cheap and occasionally I do want to refer back to something) 15:33:23 heh 15:33:32 anything i write here is gfdl licensed 15:33:38 hehe 15:33:44 stew: aw, let us include it in debian 15:33:57 peterS: load the logcompress.pl :) 15:33:58 stew: or have you no invariant sections 15:33:59 stew: what are your invariant sections, front cover texts, back cover texts, if any? 15:34:29 unfortunately this beer belly is starting to look invariant 15:34:44 -!- dam_ is now known as Damyan 15:34:44 "Please post this to a pastebin" is his invariant section, usually 15:35:00 you know now with cc 3.0 we have a credible alternative to gfdl 15:35:01 heh 15:36:20 for those of you who are hungry - i will eat 2 steaks in a few minutes 15:36:38 feh 15:36:42 peterS: with even more TPM confusion IMO 15:36:48 * SteveMcIntyre is at a dinner party tonight 15:36:54 cc-scotland 2.5 was best 15:37:03 plain and simple language, damnit! 15:37:24 -!- Damyan is now known as dam_ 15:38:24 SteveMcIntyre: how's that work? Mobile phone IRC? 15:38:25 -!- mhy [~mark@titus.mhy.org.uk] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [30] 15:38:31 -!- arjanoosting [~arjan@sd511615a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:38:41 -!- mhy [~mark@titus.mhy.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:38:50 slef: nah, hosted at my place 15:39:00 housemate invite a load of friends round 15:39:05 -!- des [~des@190.7.29.10] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:39:18 they're still nattering while I sit and be unsociable on IRC 15:39:26 it's a hard life :-/ 15:39:45 -!- teledyn__ [~teledyn@adsl-75-32-149-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:40:14 they're goths talking about sacrificing pigeons as far as I can hear... 15:40:39 -!- huggie [~huggie@the.earth.li] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:40:54 SteveMcIntyre, that should give you the right tension for the debate :) 15:41:07 nickspam 15:41:32 -!- manfred [~manfred@lichtenstern.biz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:41:37 -!- smcv [~smcv@figment.pseudorandom.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:42:00 * curt is a pigeon lover 15:42:06 SteveMcIntyre: you could maybe make the argument that in a way you're being more sociaable 15:42:31 :-) 15:43:11 -!- Pepper [~Pepper@pc057-adsl.adsl.uni-klu.ac.at] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:43:38 has anyone here, seen my old friend john^H^H^H^Hgustavo 15:44:30 -!- stockholm [~andreas@81-27-3-162.c-sam.se] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:44:32 -!- jacques [~jacques@89.156.37.58] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:44:32 -!- ibu [~ibu@dslb-084-056-083-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:44:38 -!- Kebianizao [~KVIrc@102.pool85-53-151.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:44:44 -!- Caroll [~carolina@200.138.102.78] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:44:55 -!- schoinobates [~lmamane@2001:888:19f0:2:2e0:81ff:fe54:abf9] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:01 -!- WouterVerhelst [~wouter@samba.grep.be] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:01 -!- svena [~sa@62.209.182.200] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:03 * Maulkin waves 15:45:04 -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:08 -!- SamHocevar [~sam@dindon.zoy.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:26 -!- wajig [~wajig@p57A96F97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:26 -!- sbr [~sbr@81.56.171.199] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:30 -!- Womble2 [~womble@shadbolt.e.decadent.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:45:32 * h01ger snogs Maulkin 15:45:41 -!- teledyn_ [~teledyn@adsl-75-32-149-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:46:04 -!- astronut [~astronut@sfnc-162-39-87-183.sandhills.us] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:46:10 note: Svenl withdrew 15:46:15 -!- lool [lool@pig.zood.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:46:28 true 15:46:31 was that today? 15:46:33 yep 15:46:33 yes 15:46:37 on -vote 15:46:52 ok... I've spent most of today futzing the network... not caught up with -vote 15:46:58 i wonder if anyone took the time to prepare stuff beforehand. :-) 15:47:00 Belkins are POS 15:47:17 stockholm: I prepared dinner. 15:47:35 * h01ger wonders if don_armstrong expects WouterVerhelst to start 15:47:38 slef: dinner is clearly more important 15:48:11 better: without +v 15:48:15 only 127 nicks, minus some bots!!! 15:48:17 -!- bertagaz [~bertagaz@ver44-2-82-242-130-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:48:51 stockholm: that's because you're not a candidate, so your supporters didn't show up 15:49:08 jcristau, i did! 15:49:20 -!- Lilandra [~lilandra@201-221-64-3.rev.greendottt.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:49:33 ...did don freeze? 15:49:55 the 6 minutes are not yet over :) 15:50:01 6 minutes aren't over yet, yes :) 15:50:08 Time is running fast, by astronut's. :) 15:50:12 he's probably warming up his army of floodbots 15:50:31 stew: ;-) 15:50:38 when i read "They've already been asked the first question" i assumed he meant in advance and they had it prepared 15:50:41 uh... are the candidates writing their introductions down? 15:51:04 yep 15:51:07 simple have a bit patience, he isnt running the first debate. :) 15:51:21 jatt: in order not to penalise slow typists, the answers are collected and then pasted in all at once at the end of the 6 minutes 15:51:22 astronut: nah, we were giving the missing candidates a few extra minutes 15:51:28 slef: i got that part 15:51:30 then he welcomed, etc 15:51:50 astronut: so he couldn't pre-ask Q1 15:53:44 -!- KarlNapf [~siklhoer@DSL01.83.171.176.124.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:54:04 peterS: thanks for the explanation 15:55:00 since it looks like svenl isn't participatnig, should Don make a statement that he is no longer a canidate, etc, etc 15:55:04 ? 15:55:41 is Manoj going to drop him from the ballot? 15:56:02 i would assume so 15:56:08 the final ballot isn't there yet; he just won't appear on it I guess 15:56:10 presumably - but he's traveling right now and has the election sitting in 'at' jobs, so if he doesn't have a chance to catch up to the state of the world, it won't change 15:56:19 hrm 15:56:39 The options on the ballot will be those candidates who have nominated themselves and have not yet withdrawn, plus None Of The Above. 15:56:45 I think the 'at' jobs are just a safety line, he expects to be around to tend to the election but he can't guarantee it 15:57:22 svenl has withdrawn, so he should not be on the ballot 15:57:40 peterS: where's he going/ 15:57:57 i don't remember a [VAC] mail 15:57:57 I have no idea, my information is gleaned from his mutterings on irc as he was setting up the at jobs 15:58:28 -!- mc [many@mc.netop.oftc.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 15:58:28 astronut: Do our elections allow for candidates withdrawing in that way? 15:58:51 liw withdrew last year 15:58:57 since the constitution refers to withdrawing, i will assume so 15:59:26 astronut: Ah, fair enough. 15:59:43 broonie: constitution 5.2.6 16:00:18 even if the constitution didn't mention it specifically, it would IMO be silly pedantry to insist on putting someone on a ballot who has made the clear intention to withdraw 16:00:55 contrary to popular opinion, debian does seem to have *SOME* commons sense 16:01:25 not between my ears! 16:01:28 does that common sense apply for 2 minutes before the vote starts? 16:02:02 -!- enrico [~enrico@81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:02:14 -!- mattb [~matt@203-173-160-153.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:02:29 -!- mcg [~mcg@box.cheers.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:51 -!- amaya [~amaya@84.77.112.162] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:05:09 Clint: our common sense is used between 2:00 and 2:59 tommorow morning 16:05:22 let me make a prediction on the answers to this next one: they will all be of the form "that's the release team's job, the DPL can't do much one way or the other" 16:06:18 peterS: aj says the dpl can help them work full time on it 16:06:19 wow, you are psychic! 16:06:23 -!- cortana [~sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:16 wow, mostly bla. 16:07:31 SamHocevar: i wasn't claiming to be predictive, i was commenting on his response 16:08:31 astronut: I was talking to peterS, sorry 16:08:33 predictions? 16:08:55 jatt: are you asking what the word means? 16:09:09 no :) 16:09:13 hmmm. this next one, some people will say it's too hard for non-packagers to get through NM, others will say it's fine as-is, others will say the DPL doesn't control the AM/FD/DAM anyway 16:09:23 peterS: whihc? 16:09:30 which* 16:09:31 I don't know who will say what, sorry 16:09:59 raphael is friends with bubuelle right? he'll be the non-packager 16:10:06 aj will be DPL doesn't control it 16:10:11 lol 16:10:22 peterS: actually, some of them are watching us - you're feeding them answers :-P 16:10:25 :) 16:10:35 * astronut thinks about the wire comment from the last US presidential debate 16:10:43 they can just cut and paste from this channel!!! 16:10:57 nah, think Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and coughing in the gallery 16:10:59 astronut: well, if they copy what I say, everone will know that too. (: 16:11:09 Argh, I barely have time to read all the answers before they shift to the following :-/ 16:11:24 #debian-dpl-debate: Total of 133 nicks 16:11:25 LightKnight: Try PageUp 16:11:30 #debian-dpl-discuss: Total of 99 nicks 16:11:33 44 people won't know 16:11:38 lool: that's what I'm currently doing :) 16:11:46 LightKnight: or just grab the urls 16:11:50 and read them on paste.d.n 16:11:50 those 44 people include the b|, c|, f| bots 16:11:50 astronut: and you know how to count right? 16:12:05 errr 34 16:12:12 jcristau: count, yes, type, not so much 16:12:19 astronut: :) I'm more or less keeping the pace, maybe I'll re-read the logs :) 16:12:41 nm doesn't test arithmetic 16:12:43 last year someone formatted it pretty and published it 16:12:43 you can skimm most of it while it scrolls by 16:13:22 -!- Pepper [~Pepper@pc057-adsl.adsl.uni-klu.ac.at] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] 16:14:12 Heh. An answer with a footnote. 16:14:37 :) 16:14:55 42? 16:14:56 JoshTriplett: that's his second 16:15:11 -!- enrico [~enrico@81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 16:15:23 * slef waits for the first WHEREAS ... I BELIEVE ... answer 16:15:33 slef: i'd suggest at the second stage when he discusses the rules, don announces about svenl 16:16:09 slef: lol 16:16:17 Hmm. Was there ever a decision that the "maintainer concept" should be implemented? 16:16:40 obviously aj decided 16:16:55 fjp: No. Code talks. :) 16:17:20 -!- james_w [~jw2328@217.147.94.141] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:17:26 fjp: that's a DSA/ftpmaster decision i do beleive 16:17:44 though i dont' recall anyone against it when it was introduced 16:17:45 JoshTriplett: I would say that changing the structure of Debian by introducing a new "class" of maintainer should be a project decision. 16:17:48 astronut: right, because the project serves them 16:17:56 astronut: me, in its current form. 16:18:09 fjp: True. But creating the infrastructure to support such a thing can happen regardless. 16:18:16 Sure. 16:18:19 Ganneff, what is the current form? 16:18:26 fjp: The infrastructure supports various possible changes. 16:18:28 Creating, yes, implementing, no. 16:18:34 astronut: relayed 16:19:23 slef: you've been reading too many SPI resolutions :) 16:19:26 fjp: Think about our current sponsorship system; did anyone decide that that should exist, or did people just start uploading packages on others' behalves? 16:20:07 -!- GyrosGeier [~richter@port-195-158-179-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:20:11 hi 16:20:36 fjp: The new model might well support a sponsorship-like system too, with moderated uploads. 16:20:40 * broonie mails off for his bus pass. 16:20:58 Clint: The Project Leader's Delegates: 16:21:00 1. have powers delegated to them by the Project Leader; 2. may make certain decisions which the Leader may not make directly, including approving or expelling Developers or designating people as Developers who do not maintain packages. 16:21:00 fjp: Or, as one alternative, it might support the Debian Maintainer concept. 16:21:03 JoshTriplett: with sponsorship you keep the DD responsible. 16:21:11 -!- beechen [~beechen@e178113239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] 16:21:14 astronut: don't quote the constitution at me 16:21:17 so gustavo did not show up? 16:21:24 JoshTriplett: with giving those a keyring and let them upload (their) packages you kicked that. 16:21:29 stockholm: doesnt look like 16:21:39 GyrosGeier: you're here! 16:22:03 Ganneff: True. The idea has merit, though, and needs some consideration. 16:22:05 * GyrosGeier slept in, fscking phone that was supposed to wake me up went out of battery 16:22:16 JoshTriplett: yes. 16:22:29 JoshTriplett: im not completly against "splitting" the dd-status to something more 16:22:35 but its not that easy *IMO* 16:22:43 GyrosGeier: change nick to SimonRichter, not everybody necessarily knows you 16:22:49 Ganneff: We really have two questions to answer: do we trust someone to not upload trojan horses, and do we trust someone to not upload broken packages. The maintainer system would allow us to trust people for the former, but not allow them to break anyone's packages but their own. 16:22:53 Ganneff: That seems like a feature. 16:23:07 -!- GyrosGeier is now known as SimonRichter 16:23:25 bah 16:23:36 people have uploaded completely broken packages and theyre still in 16:23:45 I think it might be useful to add support levels to packages 16:24:30 * lool . o O ( Or to just stop caring about some when it comes to the question of releasing ) 16:24:31 Some packages are unmaintained or have maintainers that aren't very competent, or are too thinly spread 16:24:36 Womble2: Right; handy for users to know the maintainer's status: DD, maintainer, non-developer needing sponsorship, orphaned package. 16:25:13 foo-2-1.2-sponsored.deb 16:25:25 Ganneff: pfaf, it is :) 16:25:25 Not just that, but some maintainers clearly aren't capable of doing security fixes and the security team is also spread thinly, so unpopular packages will not get timely fixes 16:25:34 HAHAHAHAHAHA 16:25:38 lol 16:25:42 'spread thinly' 16:25:44 Womble2: the problem is that labeling a package as "maintainer is incompetent" will be seen as a personal attack. what that means, effectively, is that people won't apply that label even when it is justified 16:25:49 Maulkin: no. 16:25:50 ITYM non-existant 16:25:57 what about sponsored NMUs? 16:26:07 Ganneff: sorry, mis-tab :) 16:26:08 i one time prepared an NMU of something and the maintainer sponsored it 16:26:11 I would say it's up to the maintainer to say how much support they can promise 16:26:18 foo-1.2-MIA.deb 16:26:25 another time he reviews patch, said "Looks good, but i'm away from my key, get someone else to upload it" 16:26:43 foo-1.2-I-M-DEAD-BUT-I-STILL-UPLOAD-PACKAGES.deb 16:27:18 foo-1.2-I-M-NOT-DEAD-YET-I-M-GETTING-BETTER.deb 16:27:20 cruft_0.9.6-0.IVE-BEEN-NMUED-400-TIMES.deb 16:27:23 * h01ger thinks since some years that debian should not claim to give security support for all 15-18000 packages, but only for the 3000-8000 core ones. "dont hide problems." 16:27:39 Clint: That's rather easy to spot already! 16:28:05 Womble2: really? 16:28:11 Womble2, if you know what to look for... 16:28:12 h01ger: Yes, thanks for stating my point more succinctly 16:28:19 \o/ Break time! 16:28:26 * Maulkin can stop concentarting :) 16:28:34 slef, Maulkin: Suggestion for next time: have a bit of warning before the pastebomb starts. 16:28:37 Clint: kool-shit_0.1.3.5-42_i386.deb 16:28:38 I disagree about the short 5-minute break. I think we should take a _long_ 5-minute break 16:28:49 broonie: suggest to dondelelcaro :) 16:28:49 Clint: kool-shit_0.1.3.5-0.42_i386.deb even 16:28:53 it makes sense that the GNAA candidate is against social guidlines. :-) 16:29:00 lol! 16:29:11 broonie: How would that help? 16:29:16 don_armstrong/ dondelelcaro : i'd also suggest a bigger diffferentiation between questions 16:29:17 stockholm, social guidelines do not work. 16:29:22 Womble2: harder to tell when the upstream version number's been incremented 16:29:28 i would scroll up looking for the top of the flood and end up in the previous question 16:29:28 broonie: relayed 16:29:31 SimonRichter: oh, how do you know? 16:29:34 slef: see above 16:29:35 SimonRichter: they do. 16:29:47 Ig: I can pretty much follow in real time 16:30:05 Ig: But since there's 6 minutes of dead air one isn't always paying attention when the pastebomb starts. 16:30:06 astronut: suggest more 16:30:19 slef: huh? 16:30:27 astronut: suggest more questions 16:30:27 stockholm, the only thing social guidelines can do is provide the "but it says so on paper" argument to one of the sides 16:30:30 slef: no 16:30:33 i mean lines 16:30:34 slef: He's talking about formatting, not the content. 16:30:35 =========== 16:30:42 i would scroll up looking for the top of the flood and end up in the previous question 16:30:46 broonie: add an IRC hilight for don_armstrong. that will show boundaries clearly 16:30:48 -!- Azar [macondo@h-66-166-120-11.lsanca54.covad.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:30:50 h01ger: In a way, you can tell whether we provide security support or not since there's a public tracker for public security issues; but it's true some holes wont ever see a corresponding DSA :-/ 16:30:51 SimonRichter: that is something. 16:30:58 peterS++ 16:31:10 * Maulkin nods 16:31:14 peterS=0; //reset peterS 16:31:25 peterS: I was really looking for say 10 seconds to notice ands witch windows. 16:31:37 * Maulkin avoids ranting about team@s.d.o 16:31:39 peterS: Any speech in the channel is enough for that. 16:31:52 Let's just say: I'm not impressed. 16:31:58 stockholm, that does not help anything unless we are already at the point where we need to punish one side, at which point it is already too late 16:32:17 lool, i would like to be able to configure apt-get to only install security supported packages. full stop. that i can find out $somehow, which are (not) supported, is barely a hack. 16:32:28 SimonRichter: punishing might not be necessary. have you ever raised a kid? 16:32:30 astronut Depending on your client, you can probably scroll up before the answers begin and wait for the (More) to appear and then scroll down from there 16:32:40 an endless number of packages doesnt scale with a limited security team 16:32:43 -!- Guest757 [~david@AMontsouris-152-1-49-224.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:32:50 SimonRichter: having rules does not mean you punish someone. 16:32:53 h01ger: in theory the dividing line is ftp.debian.org vs. any other source 16:33:12 * SteveMcIntyre nods stockholm 16:33:21 Ig: irssi, and yes, but it's not otpimal 16:33:23 optimal 16:33:26 peterS, in theory... 16:33:39 SimonRichter: If there is consensus on what is and isn't acceptable, it *should* be enough to say "X, you seem to be crossing the line. Please take a break before responding." 16:33:59 stockholm: other DDs aren't kids 16:34:11 impressive speeches honorables 16:34:25 h01ger: Sure; you were mentionning that we should not hide problem, and I was simply pointing out the tracker _is_ public 16:34:35 But that won't work if there's then a big argument about how this is censorship and no-one should tell another to shut up. 16:34:48 jcristau: so? kids or not. 16:35:06 lool, ah, ok :) 16:35:10 -!- mattb [~matt@203-173-160-153.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:16 Suggested question: Debian's structure makes changes to individual packages or closely related packages easy, but sweeping policy decisions like infrastructure changes (e.g. "new event-based init script system by default", or more importantly "drop support for old system") require a more concerted effort. Do you believe Debian can or should adapt more responsively to sweeping changes, and if so, how? 16:35:17 so if you tell someone to shut up, he might not agree 16:35:17 Is this about svenl? 16:35:31 it is a matter of learning and adjusting 16:35:31 Maulkin, slef: See above. Did that get cut off? 16:35:41 -!- mattb [~matt@203-173-160-153.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:35:42 JoshTriplett: nafaict 16:35:59 ta 16:36:02 JoshTriplett: "...if so, how?" 16:36:07 astronut: Yup. 16:36:08 -!- hilfried_tlerfried [~mv@pD9505859.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:36:09 JoshTriplett: relayed 16:36:17 slef: Thank you. 16:36:26 astronut: relayed 16:36:51 Oooh, a question of mine. :) 16:36:58 create a "member-relations" department to care about members needs and help solve disputes 16:37:10 question for candidates: are we ever going to put up a statue of james troup? 16:37:30 peterS: a likeness or tar and feather the real one? 16:37:30 Default desktop background! 16:37:32 * astronut ducks 16:37:38 broonie: ah, now we're talking 16:38:11 broonie: something like this? 16:38:12 The Project Leader's Delegates: 16:38:13 1. have powers delegated to them by the Project Leader; 2. may make certain decisions which the Leader may not make directly, including approving or expelling Developers or designating people as Developers who do not maintain packages. 16:38:17 aww 16:38:17 EPASTE 16:38:19 crap 16:38:20 http://www.elmosplayground.com/wallpaper/elmo2.jpg 16:38:25 that's the right paste 16:38:28 peterS: should that wait for the cage fight section? 16:38:41 :) 16:38:42 astronut: Um Content-Type? 16:38:56 Womble2: i'm not hosting it 16:38:58 text/plain... is it ascii art? 16:39:05 no, it's a bad webserver 16:39:12 slef: My browser says image/jpeg... 16:39:21 * astronut used the previously discussed open-in-browser extension to view it 16:39:36 * broonie was thinking more of the Ubuntu circle thing 16:39:40 slef: can we do followup questions to these? 16:39:49 slef: And wget says application/octet-stream, not text/plain. 16:40:03 astronut: afaik 16:40:19 -!- cuvy_ [~chatzilla@pD9E84684.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.77 [SeaMonkey 1.5a/0000000000]] 16:40:22 JoshTriplett: I was guessing. I'm screwing up an IRC debate. I don't have time to run wget. 16:40:47 slef: You seem to do quite well, actually. 16:41:09 slef: follow up: "Many of you talked about posts to d-d-a. This has often been promised in the past, but these posts tend to die out as the term of the DPL continues. What stratagies do you have to make sure you actually make these posts?" 16:41:12 IceWeasel showed the DL window to me :) 16:41:14 a little more nice though 16:41:23 LightKnight: ditto - i told it to open as an image anyway 16:41:33 astronut: ditto^2 :) 16:41:34 astronut: that is a lame question 16:41:55 astronut: forwarded 16:42:09 astronut: dunno if it'll get picked up, but *shrug* 16:42:12 stockholm: suggest better 16:42:19 I second astronut's question. 16:43:00 -!- luk_ [~luk@107.64-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [I'm leaving] 16:43:09 To put it another way: do you plan to do announcements only when news exists, or regularly-spaced posting so we know what you work on even if not much has happened? 16:43:20 -!- rleigh [~rleigh@client-82-12-228-253.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:43:36 JoshTriplett: I prefer it astronut's way, sorry ;-) 16:43:38 -!- hilfried_tlerfried [~mv@pD9505859.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Wohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cya.] 16:43:53 slef: I agree; just trying to offer another interpretation. 16:44:34 -!- AigarsMahinovs [~aigarius@82.152.74.5] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:44:48 sweet... 16:45:17 :) 16:45:37 slef: the concept of "everone promises that, promise harder" does not work 16:46:06 -!- jan [~jan@gve-gix-adsl-dynip-138-082.vtx.ch] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:46:11 what does he mean, cron/apt will help? what has apt to do with posting status reports? 16:46:11 SteveMcIntyre: apt? 16:46:13 stockholm: Hence why astronut asked for strategies, not promises. 16:46:17 gah, sorry - typo 16:46:18 * Clint chuckles 16:46:20 "you are there not enough news postings?" - i wanted to avoid flame wars and endless threads on the lists" 16:46:21 meant "at" 16:46:22 stockholm: suggest better questions 16:46:26 ahhhh 16:46:34 yes... 16:46:50 s/why 16:46:59 peterS: echo '@monthly apt-get moo | mail -s "Bits from the DPL" d-d-a' >crontab 16:47:03 slef: Question I'd like to ask: Which project management and leadership experiences do you have? 16:47:21 slef: There are no easter eggs in this project leader 16:47:28 -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Konversation terminated!] 16:47:29 why do people think wikis solve everything? 16:47:33 lool: relayed... I like that one. 16:47:37 Did Raphael just andswer a question without mentioning the board? 16:47:48 astronut: because they've never had a WikiFarm fill with weeds 16:47:51 astronut: Because everybody can edit them! You don't need to appoint anyone! 16:48:08 * astronut appoints lool the wiki troller 16:48:12 "Today, the DPL delegated advertising to Spammers Inc" 16:48:31 astronut, because mailinglists are so 20th century 16:48:32 astronut: surely you mean trooller 16:48:51 h01ger: hey, get out of my mind 16:49:08 SamHocevar: email lists are so 1980s. Let's put it all on a postnuke. 16:49:26 Suggested question: After aj's election last term, he chose a Second-In-Charge. How do you think that has worked out. If elected, will you do the same? If so, who would you choose? 16:49:32 slef, Maulkin: ^ 16:49:39 ta 16:49:43 Er, s/out\./out?/ 16:49:48 JoshTriplett: erm... 16:49:53 Arf sam :) 16:49:59 JoshTriplett: Wasn't that answered on -vote? 16:50:01 Is it just me, or is the debate more tame than last year? 16:50:01 that is a good one 16:50:01 JoshTriplett: relayed 16:50:11 Maulkin: Looking; I didn't recall seeing it there. 16:50:21 fjp: it certainly seems quieter 16:50:22 me either 16:50:23 JoshTriplett: there was a Q about it, yeah 16:50:25 from psn 16:50:27 though we haven't hit the free-for-al yet 16:50:34 s/al/all/ 16:50:38 SteveMcIntyre: And most candidates answered? 16:50:38 JoshTriplett: dunno if anybody else responded 16:50:46 but I know I did 16:50:46 * Maulkin is about 70% sure there was a question 16:50:48 we all miss sirdinasour 16:51:14 stockholm: krooger? 16:51:16 * h01ger gently throws a bible at stockholm ;) 16:51:28 WouterVerhelst: wiki aggregates data, and then I would send to d-d-a 16:51:28 I use the wiki as "report in preparation" 16:51:30 fjp: cage fight comes later 16:51:44 fjp: also, there's no krooger no more 16:51:47 -!- rleigh [~rleigh@client-82-12-228-253.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:54 Sorry, guys -- what's the meaning of "in version control" in the last question? 16:51:55 True. 16:52:06 LightKnight: stored in something like cvs, svn, etc 16:52:12 with revision histories, etc 16:52:13 -!- cydork [~atul@adsl-ull-137-218.50-151.net24.it] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:52:14 astronut: thx :) 16:52:20 LightKnight: native language? 16:52:24 astronut: or something decentralised like git, hg, darcs 16:52:29 astronut: I'm Italian :) 16:52:29 Clarification: I don't mean "one standard version control system" 16:52:35 slef, Maulkin: ^ 16:52:42 LightKnight: ah, ok 16:52:51 JoshTriplett: ack 16:52:52 slef, Maulkin: I meant "having a policy of keeping all packages in version control", not "in one particular version control system". 16:52:53 JoshTriplett: what's the value in mandating a non-standard? 16:53:10 Clint: tailor overcomes anyway 16:53:13 IIRC 16:53:23 Clint: With few exceptions, any version control works better than no version control. 16:53:27 Clint: all VCSs have some common features (commit logging, etc) 16:53:27 astronut: thought that was not as much of a language issue than a technical slip on my part :) 16:53:28 maybe i'm missing the objective then 16:53:36 Clint: And keeping it on $system.debian.org keeps things in a central location. 16:53:56 JoshTriplett: well, a mandate would be a barrier to contribution by people who prefer a workflow confined to their own machine 16:54:04 Clint: The objective would be to get more detail than what's in the changelog, I suppose. 16:54:07 slef: "Who can offer me the biggest bribe to vote for them?" 16:54:08 JoshTriplett: except for decentraliseds 16:54:23 wouldn't most dd's already use some sort of version control already .. what's the point of a public debian one .. the diff is supposed to have all the changes from upstream source anyway. 16:54:31 astronut: now now, you've already got SamHocevar offering to let you spank him. Isn't that enough? 16:54:35 slef: All the decentralized systems support keeping one or more repos on a public server. 16:54:36 Even a centralised RCS could be centralised in your private boxx 16:54:49 curt: Well, imagine if you could commit NMUs on a branch so they don't get lost as easily. 16:54:50 where's XSF svn again? 16:55:08 Clint: They moved to git, didn't they? 16:55:09 It's git nowadays 16:55:09 Clint: used to be on deadbeast.net, but xsf is moving (has moved?) to git now 16:55:10 Clint: Not svn anymore. Git on git.debian.org 16:55:12 stockholm, wasnt this "big raid system last year" planned to be used for snapshots(d.o|n)? 16:55:20 Clint: Of course it should be possible to import packages into version control without that being authoritative, like Keybuk was talking about at DC5, but it could be tricky where the orig.tar.gz itself contains tarballs and the diff contains diffs... 16:55:20 peterS: Has moved. Recently. 16:55:46 we need a decentralised one, so someone could fork the whole Debian easily :) 16:55:52 JoshTriplett: where's xcb git? ;) 16:56:11 AigarsMahinovs: they can fork our fork (ubuntu uses baz-ng or whatever) 16:56:12 yes 16:56:14 jcristau: xcb.freedesktop.org, git.freedesktop.org 16:56:40 AigarsMahinovs: but hey, SPI won't let a GR tell them what to do (possibly...) 16:56:44 * slef runs 16:56:46 JoshTriplett: yeah, I noticed after I NMUed libxcb, actually :) 16:56:54 astronut: that too. imagine ubuntu being just a branch in the Debian repo and now we are talking 16:56:59 do wtih the domain 16:57:02 with 16:57:06 ah to heck with it 16:57:09 astronut: Only some teams in Ubuntu do use bzr 16:57:22 jcristau: Yeah, sorry about that. We took some time figuring out why that dependency should or shouldn't exist, because we didn't think it should. 16:57:28 lool: i thought the whole launchpad thing forces them to? 16:57:43 astronut: Nope; e.g. no single GNOME packages is under a VCS 16:57:47 -- TTBOMK 16:57:52 Maulkin, slef: (Might need better wording) Other distributions often encounter technical or social problems similar to Debian's. This is even more true in other volunteer distros (like Gentoo). Do you have any kind of contacts or involvement in other distributions which would give you as a DPL more insight about a better solution? 16:57:54 ouch 16:58:09 better solutions, even 16:58:20 wow 16:58:23 astronut: Launchpad only supports bzr but it can pull from a few other RCSs into bzr or just not use it for some packages. 16:58:27 Lunar^: Oooh, nice. 16:58:34 JoshTriplett: thx 16:58:36 Lunar^: Maulkin relayed 16:58:41 Lunar^: forwarded, but probably needs rephrasing 16:58:53 -!- sto_ [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 16:59:02 astronut: there are plans for having everything in launchpad. there is still a long way to go there, though 16:59:04 native speakers, don't hesitate to do so 16:59:11 wow, arch.ubuntu.com is still up 16:59:18 * Maulkin tries to think 16:59:28 AigarsMahinovs 16:59:30 sorry 16:59:33 ;) 16:59:37 Lunar^: I personally like the wording you used, and I see no problems with its English either. 17:00:35 -!- sto [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:44 Yay for crap interview questions 17:00:52 * SteveMcIntyre nods Womble2 17:00:59 Womble2: No, yay for poor answers. 17:01:08 fjp: forwarded 17:01:11 yay for dodging answers 17:01:15 sgran: Exactly. 17:01:34 my biggest flaw is that i have no flaws 17:01:40 :) 17:02:08 where do you see yourself in 15 years? 17:02:10 My biggest flaw is I'm so superior that I have trouble dealing with puny humans. 17:02:15 my biggest flaw is that I'll never be elected DPL 17:02:28 now where is that "I want peace in the whole wide world" question? 17:02:31 -!- mcg [~mcg@box.cheers.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:02:36 * astronut wants to see svenl's answer to that 17:02:36 Womble2: we'd noticed :-) 17:02:40 my biggest flaw is the inside of the sports hall. Oh, you said flaw. 17:03:17 i said fleadh 17:03:17 my biggest flaw is that, as DPL, I would spend too much time trampling all the little people that got me where I am today 17:03:30 peterS: ETAUTOLOGY 17:03:49 actually, some of them start trampling before becoming DPL... 17:03:58 OK, now we have an honest answer. 17:04:04 we do? 17:04:05 Or a few, actually. 17:04:14 :) 17:04:18 Clint: The last two didn't seem like dodging, anyway. 17:04:29 you lack the proper cynicism 17:04:39 oy, an ftpmaster question 17:04:47 JoshTriplett: what are you drinking and did you pay enough for it? 17:05:25 Clint: Why are you still in Debian, btw? 17:05:48 -!- helix [~e@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:05:50 Womble2: ask me later 17:05:51 win 2 17:05:55 you think Clint should've dropped out about the time mjg59 did? 17:06:03 sgran: sorry, you only win 1 17:06:13 Womble2: maybe sheer bloody-mindedness. I'm sure there are some. 17:06:37 Maulkin: I'll take it. 17:06:57 * Maulkin hands sgran a slightly used hanky 17:07:03 slef, Maulkin: Suggested question: Name something, other than releases, that you think a specific other distribution does better than Debian. How could we fix that? 17:07:19 * sgran passes the hanky to slef to pass on to a candidate 17:08:07 WouterVerhelst: Cut off at ...decision on 17:08:36 Snip 17:08:37 Hmmm, I probably should have directed that at slef or Maulkin... 17:09:03 no, I'm here too :) 17:09:11 sgran: no-one wants it AFAICT 17:09:12 he's omnipresent 17:09:19 uh, I hope nobody is running KDE on his 68030 17:09:27 23:08 < Maulkin> cut off at [ And finally, I've always felt that the decision on 17:09:30 23:08 -!- #debian-dpl-debate Cannot send to channel 17:09:35 Pfaf 17:09:37 those things only support 16 MB of RAM, correct? 17:10:04 i was shocked to see dual-headed gnome on a 70mhz hppa 17:10:05 (Gtk is in X11) 17:10:05 but there it was 17:10:13 Clint: nice 17:10:33 Clint: Did you check it wasn't a screenshot of an i386 GNOME? 17:10:37 surely an arch that only built priority >= optional wouldn't be considered a reasonable release arch? 17:10:39 lool: yes 17:10:41 * slef ponders concrete surgery on garden gnomes 17:10:44 * SimonRichter used to run enlightenment with the "water ripple" effect on an Amiga 1200 17:10:46 maybe Gnome should buy KDE or KDE buy Gnome and finish with : KDE.. or Gnome ? 17:10:48 * SteveMcIntyre nods smcv 17:11:00 -!- Adri2000 [~adri2000@f0017-1-88-165-188-51.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:05 smcv: Perhaps we should allow that, if we divide priority carefully. 17:11:09 And then xfce can buy them all 17:11:12 SimonRichter: I used to run KDE on a packet of cigarettes 17:11:42 Q - business is nearly missing from cdd (Custom Debian Distributions) and from a lot of recent articles on why business aren't utilizing linux/open source software this is in fact why .. nothing is available to suit the small to medium business needs in accounting/invoicing/inventory tracking/shipping-receiving. do you think this will be worked on more in your term as DPL and what do you see on the horizon related to t 17:11:42 his issue? 17:11:56 . o ( surgeon general's warning: KDE may cause cancer ) 17:12:10 curt: That doesn't seem like a question for a DPL. 17:12:11 curt: fwded 17:12:17 curt: A DPL can't make software get written. 17:12:18 in practice, priority extra is meaningless, it only exists to satisfy the technical requirement that optional packages must not conflict with each other. every maintainer seems to think his packages are so important as to be 'optional' even if they're way down at the bottom of the popcon 17:12:22 maybe it was for venture capitalists 17:12:23 just a sec... 17:12:32 dunc-tank can though 17:12:44 KDEing harms you and others around you. 17:12:47 peterS: ftp files stuff as optional 17:12:50 if not important, why package it? 17:12:56 s/optional/extra/ 17:12:56 curt: not sure how that's related. Can you rephrase please 17:12:57 peterS: Not true, I've moved some of my packages to extra 17:13:07 And please hilight me/slef if you want to ask 17:13:07 schoinobates: because it's funny 17:13:08 broonie: you and I are stark exceptions then 17:13:11 schoinobates: what's useless to many is still vital to some 17:13:14 Maulkin: relayed 17:13:15 schoinobates: we passed that point a long long time ago 17:13:18 -!- Adri2000 [~adri2000@f0017-1-88-165-188-51.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:13:28 peterS: I've marked packages (-dbg packages for libraries) as extra. 17:13:38 my heart goes with mr RaphaelHertzog : one at the beginning and one towards the end to prepare for the next release 17:13:50 prediction: candidates will talk about ubuntu and publicity to the n00bs 17:13:57 :) 17:14:03 peterS: Sigh, I didn't think of that. 17:14:06 peterS: I hope not. 17:14:09 is #debian-dpl-canidates publicly viewable? 17:14:10 I hope not too 17:14:17 Maulkin, no, I guess I take a much wider view of what DPL has infuence on. it's ok it doesn't have to be asked.. 17:14:22 -candy-dates 17:14:25 I want them to say that gentoo attracts better users 17:14:26 canine dates 17:14:27 astronut: No. 17:14:31 -!- sto [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:14:35 curt, i really didnt get your question.. 17:14:43 helix: whom-not-to-vote-for? 17:14:44 astronut: no 17:14:54 depends how serious they are. :) 17:14:58 astronut: not until afterwards. It says it's logged and will be published. 17:15:09 curt: I don't mind, but please rephrase so I understand it :) 17:15:15 well, anyone who doesn't take questions seriously would lose points from me 17:15:20 sam++ 17:15:23 I wish we had an ubuntu drinking game 17:15:32 lool: Seconded. sam++ 17:15:32 oh dear 17:15:48 helix: but I value my liver! 17:15:52 peterS: how many points does one need to lose to earn your vote? 17:15:57 sgran: I've translated your offer to French and still no-one wants it. Looks like you're stuck with the grubby hanky. 17:16:02 helix, drink everytime ubuntu is mentioned in debian? 17:16:05 yes 17:16:09 :) 17:16:15 helix: how about at debconf/ 17:16:16 -!- sto_ [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:17 yay, WouterVerhelst stuck to my prediction 17:16:32 helix: astronut wants you to get him drunk 17:16:33 ubuntu can't be in debian. Its trademark terms break the DFSG. 17:16:37 TST, that's an nice idea, IMHO 17:16:43 SamHocevar started it 17:17:00 but sam at least didn't talk about ubuntu appealing to the n00bs 17:17:09 helix: did you mean "attracts (better users)" or "(attracts better) users" ? 17:17:13 noone cares about n00bs 17:17:24 peterS: yeah, I think Sam brought up a good technical point, and one that does hold true. 17:17:30 JoshTriplett: right 17:17:40 SamHocevar: the former! we need more teenagers. 17:17:48 imagine if we had 200 astronuts 17:17:56 hot! 17:17:58 :D 17:18:00 an army of one 17:18:01 helix: debian would be much more idiot proof 17:18:05 * Clint chokes 17:18:09 is ubuntu gonna be the yardstick for debian? 17:18:09 * SimonRichter ITPs MySpace 17:18:15 im in ur debain 17:18:15 how do i worked graphical loginz 17:18:21 -!- padski_ [~padski@ip-81-1-116-48.cust.homechoice.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:18:26 oh my 17:18:32 astronut: It wants me apt-get something? THAT'S SO UNFAIR! 17:18:47 helix: go to your chroot. No /proc for you 17:18:54 why didn't anyone suggest we begin using rpm 17:19:02 :) 17:19:04 because no one remembers who bruce is 17:19:06 Maulkin: was that meant to be funny? 17:19:07 right, -funroll-loops is a vital parameter 17:19:11 Second time AigarsMahinovs mentions making Ubuntu work more or less in Debian; I think we're past this at this point. 17:19:13 I guess the closest thing I can come up with is - do you think a CDD for business applications would make debian more accessible to small and medium business that currently don't utilize debian/open source software because of missing key components neccesary to make the switch? 17:19:27 how about a candidate who says: fuck ubuntu 17:19:30 that would rule 17:19:30 curt: could you send me a prospectus? 17:19:33 lool: AigarsMahinovs gets double points for also trying to bring USE flags into debian 17:19:38 I don't know, maybe 17:19:39 lool, at some point, either distribution will assimilate the other 17:19:39 helix: you havent' seen the mails from 199[4-5] from people suggesting dropping /.deb in favour of rpm then? 17:19:53 bruce did it later than that 17:19:57 Laptop support in Debian is also pretty slick now... 17:20:03 no, that was like 12-13 years ago 17:20:06 it wasn't around woody 17:20:13 we still have wifi issues 17:20:17 helix: remind me next year. Ubuntu is the distribution with the logo based on goatse, right? 17:20:19 peterS: True 17:20:19 uh, is aj the only candidate who did not mention ubuntu? 17:20:21 Lunar^: people think debian's installer blows because no one has installed it since boot-floppies 17:20:25 slef: :D 17:20:25 i had to help someone get their wifi working, it "Just worked" in ubuntu 17:20:26 peterS: the proble is those pints are double negative for the ones who would need to make their tools support all that 17:20:33 * lool notes that Ubuntu already produced as many releases as Debian 17:20:38 points rather 17:20:38 astronut: because they hate freedom 17:20:39 astronut: I had the opposite 17:20:42 * astronut likes d-i 17:20:43 lool: how many of them were good? 17:20:46 Maulkin: really? 17:20:48 astronut: broken in Ubuntu, working in etch 17:20:50 -!- stew [1413@rrcs-72-43-105-66.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:50 Yup 17:20:51 * helix note she's never actually been able to install ubuntu :) 17:20:52 do the candidates know other distributions besides ubuntu and gentoo, or do all others just suck? 17:21:00 mine's just download firmware, toss in /lib/firmware 17:21:00 lool: and upset a lot of users from the end-of-life-ing 17:21:03 jcristau: mostly the others all suck... :-) 17:21:04 well ... even aj mentioned ubuntu obliquely - "derived distributions" with live CDs 17:21:04 jcristau, all others just suck 17:21:07 there is something else? 17:21:11 (i meant knoppix) 17:21:12 AT stayed nicely away from ubuntu 17:21:19 astronut: had that issue twice 17:21:21 good thing ubuntu and gentoo don't suck 17:21:33 Azar: sort of. he mentioned live CDs from derived distributions. that says ubuntu (though it used to mean knoppix) 17:21:42 Clint: they do, but in other ways and places ;) 17:21:43 seems ubuntu is a major headache for those wanttobeDPLs. 17:21:53 jcristau, Linspire pwns Ub*ntu for the n00bs, but for some reason, the Ubuntu folks don't seem to care about that 17:21:54 Clint: I suppose 5 out 5 Debian releases were good? :) 17:21:56 the major thing that others do better than us is releasing in short periods, but that was explicitly excluded from the question 17:21:57 well was at least an elegant way to say the word without naming it 17:22:11 lool: nope 17:22:15 wtf is pwning besides bad cycling? 17:22:17 I don't understand the asterisk use 17:22:24 WouterVerhelst calls SamHocevar's bluff 17:22:24 peterS, i'd say he ment live-package :-) 17:22:40 mc, Ubuntu is a headache since the massive amount of penis envy going on within Debian is one of the causes for all the infighting that has been harming the project lately 17:22:52 ubuntu has a penis? 17:23:00 no, it's an arse 17:23:03 -!- Caroll [~carolina@200.138.102.78] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:23:03 well 17:23:14 Maulkin, slef: Q: Enterprise readiness -- what could Debian improve in this respect? 17:23:20 at least it shields debian from the hungry crowds.. 17:23:25 wtf, what does "enterprise" mean? 17:23:25 may be, but i wouldnt know if naming the child here is the way to go. 17:23:25 lool: Elaborate? 17:23:26 * Zomb wonders how SamHocevar is going to configure his "old farts detector"... 17:23:30 Fore 17:23:30 how can we increase shareholder dividends? 17:23:33 warded 17:23:35 bah 17:23:37 lool: fwded 17:23:41 Clint: vote aj! 17:23:49 JoshTriplett: What features, structure, support could we offer which would make Debian more enterprise ready 17:23:53 Maulkin: also please clarify what "enterprise" is supposed to mean 17:23:57 lool: some enterprises actually willing to pay a living wage 17:24:01 Clint: + lower TCO 17:24:02 lool: Elaborate on "enterprise", I mean. :) 17:24:05 * Clint tosses ore a cracker. 17:24:06 peterS: startship, right? 17:24:11 starship 17:24:13 slef: a whole series of them 17:24:14 Thought we have moved on to rebuttals a bit 17:24:15 or tartship 17:24:18 your call 17:24:21 peterS, speech recognition and locking up the holodecks when we are close to a release 17:24:27 Azar: the problem is, 1% of that croud is going to become developers. and if they go Ubuntu and not Debian, we might have less developers by 2020 17:24:30 SimonRichter: good answer 17:24:48 -!- jacques [~jacques@89.156.37.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:24:56 slef: adding to current question "And should these meetings be public or private?" 17:25:20 AigarsMahinovs: maybe those left with debian out of their true believe in debian will do better... 17:25:23 -!- stew [1413@rrcs-72-43-105-66.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:25:24 JoshTriplett: Well, that could typically mean being reliable, being long term maintained, being security maintained, having fixed-response time, scheduled releases, a sane level of documentation and QA 17:25:25 AigarsMahinovs, a lot of Ubuntu developers jump ship after seeing that Debian cares about everyone, not just GNOME users 17:25:26 Well, to serve the enterprise, Debian needs an Enterprise Edition that costs lots of money and has almost no packages. 17:25:27 astronut: The Debian reality show! 17:25:29 astronut: noted 17:25:31 Shout now for directed questuons. 17:25:36 Please hilight 17:25:36 And to get Oracle to certify their database on it. 17:25:38 lool: Thanks, much better. 17:25:49 -!- yeesha [~rob@cpe-72-185-191-118.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:55 Womble2: why are you still in Redhat? 17:26:12 Clint: Because I'm paid to use it. 17:26:15 Clint: questions to the candidates, not Womble2 17:26:15 fast release on other distros are done under great pressure on developers I doubt they can be as happy.. 17:26:18 It's all about the $$$. 17:26:21 stockholm: no thanks 17:26:25 Azar: do you believe in debian, even after another DPL contest? 17:26:51 slef: yes and I want keep believing 17:27:00 cue journey song 17:27:01 DPL-Factor? DPL-Idol? DPL Academy? Big DPL? Who Wants To Be A DPL? 17:27:14 non-serious question to candidates: DPL candidates sometimes have a way of disappearing from the project after they aren't elected. will you? (if so, should we take this as attempted blackmail?) 17:27:14 Mulder wanted to believe... 17:27:20 Help I'm a DPL Get Me Out Of Here? 17:27:21 slef: question for all "How important do you feel compromise is as a skill for the DPL? What are some things you would refuse to compromise on?" 17:27:27 haha 17:27:38 is there a dpl on the plane? 17:27:47 astronut: noted 17:27:50 \o/ Snakes on a DPL! 17:27:50 peterS: that means we should vote the ones we want to disappear highest? 17:27:55 DPLs on a plane!!! 17:28:02 KiBi: now that's a film I'd pay to see! 17:28:09 The DPL Identity 17:28:10 SteveMcIntyre: hey, that's my platform! 17:28:12 * helix laughs 17:28:13 those not elected should constitute the official board of the DPL 17:28:14 :-) 17:28:35 Fill all the dpl wannabies in one house? :) 17:28:41 * astronut wonders who wrote the last question ;-) 17:28:42 Azar: his majesty's loyal opposition 17:28:43 for the courage of coming here and answering the questions on the debate 17:28:48 peterS: Then a sequel: The DPL Supremacy? 17:28:52 so do i 17:29:02 soylent green is dpl 17:29:02 The DPL Ultimatum 17:29:07 KiBi: yes 17:29:17 slef: another question: "VI or Emacs?" 17:29:24 9 and a half DPLs 17:29:27 astronut: now now, we don't have time for that 17:29:30 The DPL Ultimatum: let me spend the money or I take it outside the project. 17:29:37 Twelve Angry DPLs 17:29:39 "did or do you ever use ubuntu?" 17:29:39 Haha don_armstrong 17:29:41 astronut: no flamewars 17:29:51 (disclaimer: not serious) 17:29:52 "Did you just say the BTS sucks?" 17:29:58 mc "are you or have you ever been a GNAA?" 17:30:06 :) 17:30:09 PoC? 17:30:16 I what distro you used last summer 17:30:16 Proof of Concept. 17:30:17 proof of concept i assume 17:30:17 point of contention 17:30:21 oh. 17:30:24 slef: You joke, but I wouldn't mind seeing an answer to that. 17:30:25 Piece of Caca 17:30:42 seriously, debian should become or get back to the "most cool community to be" 17:30:43 JoshTriplett: but that's the sort of thing you can ask them as individuals 17:30:43 JoshTriplett: enjoy -vote. 17:30:46 -!- sesostris [~sesostris@d80-170-155-174.cust.tele2.fr] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:30:48 peterS: Yes, true. :) 17:30:53 prospectus of conduct 17:31:07 prospectus of vancouver 17:31:07 not prospectus of canadia? 17:31:18 Province of Canada 17:31:19 canuckistan 17:31:35 -stan implies a muslim country, right? 17:31:40 what does "various teams" mean? 17:31:44 peterS: arabic more 17:31:54 peterS: "stand" = land of or so in arabic 17:31:58 s/stand/stan/ 17:32:00 peterS: moreso muslim than arabic, but only maybe 17:32:07 ujo 17:32:15 -!- Adri2000 [~adri2000@f0017-1-88-165-188-51.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leave, left, left] 17:32:29 jcristau: seconded; Maulkin, slef can we get clarification on the teams SteveMcIntyre tried to be involved in? 17:32:29 so people who say canuckistan (and many people do), I don't think I get what they are trying to imply 17:32:37 slef: "Can you understand Clint's blog entries? If so, what are they about?" 17:32:43 haha 17:32:48 heh 17:32:55 they're about astronuts 17:32:55 astronut: is that required to be DPL? :) 17:32:56 followup: do you read Evan's? 17:32:56 who is Clint? 17:32:59 -!- chris38_ath [~chris@mut38-4-82-233-119-151.fbx.proxad.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Quitte] 17:33:00 peterS: hmm, I never thought it was implying anything 17:33:04 Clint: hah! 17:33:09 welcome to my quotefile :) 17:33:10 lool: noted 17:33:11 but now that I re-read, I suppose I can see why you might 17:33:11 that is one of the great isteries of the Debian 17:33:13 astronut: noted 17:33:21 "i tried to improve them, but they didnt want me" 17:33:28 slef, Maulkin: Followup question for AnthonyTowns: What obstacles did you encounter attempting to make things happen? 17:33:30 never mind Clint. Try krooger's. 17:33:44 JoshTriplett: noted 17:33:45 "did any of them involve physical hurdles?" 17:34:13 wow good one 17:34:20 Why not do the debate with "talk", next time? That would make it more thrilling... 17:34:21 JoshTriplett: virgins unwilling to be sacrificed 17:34:35 you like over VoiP? 17:34:40 Lunar^: I wouldn't mind seeing answers as they get typed, yeah. :) 17:34:41 you mean 17:34:45 AigarsMahinovs: no I think he means ytalk 17:34:53 Wow, Java and the GFDL are aj's triumphs? 17:34:56 ytalk? Wow that takes me back. 17:34:58 AnthonyTowns wrote the new FDL and Java. 17:35:08 AnthonyTowns invented the Internet too. 17:35:09 no mistake either 17:35:16 * ore blinks 17:35:16 :) 17:35:19 I think we shoul have it VoiPed next time 17:35:22 Where did you think the dunc-tank money went, anyway? 17:35:23 We want a MOO, so we can invent the rotten fruit to throw. 17:35:27 he didn't answer the 2nd part of the question 17:35:28 slef, I had lots of fun pointing out to krooger that I believe the dietary restrictions in the old texts are probably public service announcements warning the general public against eating infectious meat 17:35:28 * Azar gonna read AT's list 17:35:38 Womble2: someone tried to ytalk me just last year 17:35:48 SimonRichter: but blue stripe yorkshires!!!!! 17:35:56 AnthonyTowns: Feel free to reply in -discuss if you have time. :) 17:36:02 * Lunar^ still use talk quite often 17:36:12 SimonRichter: They're not just that, but also a way to ensure people don't leave the tribe, because they'll be revolted by the forbidden things they eat next door. 17:36:13 umm yes we want to listen to you AT 17:36:25 Lunar^: Yeah; still needed in plenty of places unfortunately 17:36:40 ooh factions 17:36:41 only one problem in debian? woah, we're so close to perfect 17:36:54 we're the balkanized distrobution 17:36:59 AnthonyTowns: We saw most of the successes; I actually had more interest in the "mistake" part of that question. 17:37:17 astronut: we're the only gay in the village 17:37:20 * astronut remembers htis question from last year 17:37:24 hahaha 17:37:27 incentive to fight? debian needs a mommy to care about black sheeps 17:37:43 i was going to say: but i can't claim credit for any of that; of the things i've done, i'm most happy unconditionally happy about ftp-master getting on a new machine, being involved in spi and helping it be effective, and stuff like that. 17:37:50 "With our DPL powers combined, we are Captain Flamewar!" 17:37:50 SimonRichter: Battlin' Business Units! 17:37:53 -!- cortana [~sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:37:59 slef, to a certain extent, yes 17:38:07 orgh! orgh! get in the back of my cortana! 17:38:13 slef, Maulkin: follow up for SimonRichter: what incentive to fight an how would you propose removing it? 17:38:15 17:38:22 Uh? I thought we needed the SuperCow powers! I'm confused. 17:38:29 des: noted 17:38:31 -!- faw [~felipe@faw.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:38:35 des: fwded 17:38:37 * mc eyes slef 17:38:40 * cortana confused 17:38:45 get in my belly 17:38:59 as far as mistakes go, thinking that the recall vote would be a reasonable way of resolving the controversy on dunc-tank one way or another was a big one; and thinking i'd have time for 10 or so projects of my own during the year was another 17:39:01 yummy 17:39:03 god, i want DPLs to proposition me 17:39:23 with funds? 17:39:25 *** god is away (screen detached, msgs will be recorded) 17:39:31 "Which one of you will hit on helix during debconf?" 17:39:32 heh 17:39:36 slef: Nice. 17:39:38 mark shuttleworth isn't there 17:39:42 heh! 17:39:42 the question is useless 17:39:43 helix: aren't you more the type to get prepositions? 17:39:48 yeah boyyyy 17:39:52 at least everyone tried its best... 17:40:12 AnthonyTowns: Thanks for completing your answer 17:40:13 * Maulkin propositions helix for fun and profit. Or something. 17:40:20 -!- bartm [~bartm@kotnet-150.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit [Quit: 5 hours break] 17:40:25 I should have specified 'clever people' 17:40:26 Maulkin: whose profit? 17:40:42 -!- Zomb [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:50 -!- Zomb [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:40:53 AnthonyTowns: Have't quite worked it out yet, but it's not going to be me if helix ever catches up with me :) 17:41:05 crap 17:41:12 hm. the new gdfl draft still seems to have the 'invariant section problem'. right? 17:41:17 * WouterVerhelst threw over a stack of CDROMs 17:41:24 will have to clean that up tomorrow, I gues 17:41:27 WouterVerhelst: knocked? 17:41:29 siretart: afaik, yes. that's one thing RMS will not budge on. and since FSF == RMS.... 17:41:32 siretart: yes, but the SFDL does not 17:41:39 siretart: there's an alternate doc license without the invariant section problem, and the other problems are gone in both licenses 17:41:40 astronut: eh, yeah, knocked. Whatever. 17:41:48 what abotu the sabdfl 17:41:49 threw over is too close to threw up over 17:42:00 What about the WTFPL :) 17:42:10 quick, someone use a funny acronym 17:42:13 astronut: same thing I was thinking of :P 17:42:17 libpng-ng 17:42:22 siretart: The GFDL without invariant sections now seems uncontroversially free, which matches Debian's (perhaps premature) agreement to such. 17:42:22 siretart: and the GFDL can be upgraded to the SFDL provided there are no invariant sections 17:42:55 des, to a certain extent, the lack of communication between teams makes goals of different teams appear conflicting; the prime example is the mail asking for newer GNOME to be pushed into etch. 17:42:56 the fsf will probably stick to its invariant sections though? 17:42:59 WouterVerhelst: : is the fsf going to drop the invariant sections for tools like 'emacs', 'gnus', 'gcc'? 17:43:16 jcristau: yes. Their adverts are more important than your freedom. 17:43:18 siretart, jcristau: Sometimes the people who wrote the manuals agree to drop them. 17:43:21 WouterVerhelst: I find it very sad that debian is not able to ship documentation for those projects :( 17:43:27 siretart, jcristau: That happened in a couple of cases. 17:43:32 yeah, I'm guessing the GNU Manifesto trumps freedom every day of the week 17:43:37 siretart: we can, but not the fsf manuals. 17:44:01 siretart, jcristau: The copyright assignment to the FSF doesn't stop the authors from doing what they want with their code or documentation. 17:44:10 SimonRichter: thanks 17:44:15 des, I think the important bit will be identifying these situations and getting a consensus on the best technical solution that is compatible with both team's goals 17:44:18 peterS: hey, ORA trumps freedom according to FDL 17:44:20 siretart, jcristau: So don't ask the FSF, ask the authors of the manual. 17:44:21 -!- reg [~reg@gcolpart.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:44:33 slef: "In what ways do you think Debian can use its resources more effectively? (Excluding paying individuals for work) 17:44:33 slef: ORA? what? 17:44:34 JoshTriplett: i'm guessing these things have more than one author 17:44:36 " 17:44:47 jcristau: Often, but usually a couple of primary authors. 17:44:54 peterS: O'Reilly. 17:44:54 -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:44:56 peterS: I assume. 17:44:57 siretart: so do I, but it's the only right thing to do if we want to remain true to our principles 17:45:16 -!- Toadstool [~jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:45:16 JoshTriplett: that's the first thing I thought of, but it doesn't make sense to me 17:45:22 has the "chaos time" of the debate arrived yet? 17:45:29 peterS: there's an RMS essay about how the FDL rewards publishers of manuals about free software with invariant sections... ORA was one of the first publishers of FDL'd books IIRC 17:45:46 Suggested question for the FFA: "Debian suddenly receives a generous donation of $10 million dollars (US). What should we do with it?" 17:45:51 slef: oh, I thought ORA used CC or similar 17:45:59 future farmers of america? 17:46:05 JoshTriplett: invest it in the market to make more of it? 17:46:10 Clint: Free for all. 17:46:18 ah 17:46:20 peterS: I might be doing 2+2=5, but it seems like fsf were courting legacy publishers. 17:46:30 Right, it's free for all 17:46:36 peterS: ORA use all sorts of things. 17:46:58 Please paste questions, and (if you hilight me / slef) we'll forward on 17:47:05 Maulkin/slef: "In what ways do you think Debian can use its resources more effectively? (Excluding paying individuals for work)" 17:47:08 Now Playing: Richard Cheese / Rape Me 17:47:11 astronut: noted 17:47:15 JoshTriplett: noted 17:47:18 SimonRichter: I don't understand why you see the GNOME team discussing inclusion of a newer GNOME in etch as a communication problem 17:47:21 astronut: ACK 17:47:23 SimonRichter: Could you -v? 17:47:28 "when you encounter a tough situation, do you ever ask yourself, What Would Bruce Do?" 17:47:51 peterS: you need to listen to less LUG Radio 17:48:01 lool, here or on -debate? 17:48:01 wow each talks about something else... nothing is clear now 17:48:03 slef: heh! 17:48:06 -!- eddyp [~eddy@home-324701.b.astral.ro] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:48:11 bah... 17:48:12 slef, Maulkin: Oh, sorry; forgot to highlight my question. Thanks for catching it. 17:48:23 peterS: heh! 17:48:32 Maulkin/slef: "Our best resource is our people" doesn't say anything about using it effectively 17:48:58 never mind sniping, what about singing? 17:49:02 astronut: noted 17:49:09 anyone else with questions for the cage? 17:49:27 Aaaaaaaalbartros 17:49:29 -!- schoinobates [~lmamane@2001:888:19f0:2:2e0:81ff:fe54:abf9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:40 Aaaaaaaalbartros 17:49:51 Mint flavour, please 17:49:51 get your tasty aaaaaaaalbartros 17:49:59 * slef can't remember the lines 17:50:02 it's -batross, dammit 17:50:04 certainly sir, that'll be tuppence hapenny 17:50:21 * mhy moves the alcohol away from Maulkin 17:50:21 Clint: not with that accent :) 17:50:30 slef: In case it got lost, since it hasn't appeared: "Debian receives a generous $10 million dollar donation; what do we spend it on?" 17:50:36 I still think that a dedicated member-relation team to deal with inner fights would be best, people with "human side" skills 17:50:38 slef: You did ask for questions. 17:50:43 JoshTriplett: I think dondelelcaro is saving some 17:50:47 slef: Ah. 17:50:48 boxers or briefs? 17:50:53 :) 17:51:05 helix: noted 17:51:09 Maulkin: greek? 17:51:11 helix: noted 17:51:12 excellent 17:51:30 I dislike the idea of SteveMcIntyre defining a sense of humour. 17:51:43 SimonRichter: Here; I fear it would out of context on debate; feel free to respond later though 17:51:49 Clint: 'Camden Town' IIRC. 17:51:51 SimonRichter: go man go 17:52:11 Maulkin: Oxford Circus 17:52:22 -!- Zomb_ [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:52:24 Maulkin: too bad they wrote that before the advent of MLE 17:52:25 oh wait. This isn't #mornington-crescent 17:52:26 actually better yet, when you find a difficult problem as DPL, ask yourself, "What Would Ben Collins Do?" 17:52:26 -!- Zomb [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:35 slef: Mornington Cresent! 17:52:36 lool, the GNOME and the release team are out of sync on goals 17:52:37 heh 17:52:47 peterS: noted 17:53:30 has kalle kivemaa posted anything beyond hello to d-d-a yet? 17:53:33 -!- psn [psn@hades.eco.li] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 17:53:52 * h01ger thinks a code of conduct really needs to be simple. 3-7 (short) rules, not more. the rest should be "rationale". 17:54:03 I met ben collins. he is a biker 17:54:05 h01ger: enrico's was pretty close to 7 wasn't it? 17:54:06 with a southern accent 17:54:10 "Don't be a dick"? 17:54:26 is he not a redneck as he claims? 17:54:32 Maulkin: 2. don't be a lynch mobber? 17:54:33 Q: "What are, in your opinion, the stronger points of Debian?" 17:54:36 well I wouldn't define it as redneck 17:54:36 -!- sesostris [~sesostris@d80-170-155-174.cust.tele2.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:54:39 :) 17:54:40 helix: is that good or bad? 17:54:40 because I know proper rednecks 17:54:47 Zugschlu5: why does it have to be either? 17:54:49 so he's a big liar, is what you're confirming 17:54:51 slef: "Don't reply to any mail on lists?" 17:54:54 Clint: no 17:54:55 did anyone answer the 10 million dollar question? 17:55:02 astronut: not that I saw 17:55:03 That should do it. 17:55:05 astronut: aj did 17:55:11 Maulkin: noted 17:55:13 astronut: which one? 17:55:15 slef: heh :) 17:55:44 -!- Kuantiko [~meltdown@cm89024.red.mundo-r.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:48 astronut: dunno. bumped it. 17:55:52 Clint: I gather that he used to keep buildds in a farm, but to me that is "country" not "redneck" 17:56:06 farmhouse, rather 17:56:15 SimonRichter: worded like this, this is completely incorrect (IMO); the GNOME team discussed inclusion of 2.16 before the freeze and we commonly decided to polish the current GNOME (2.14) instead of pushing the new one in the last minute 17:56:23 helix: a buildd farm? cool 17:56:28 slef, i wouldnt be surprised, i learned the "7-rule" from him :) 17:56:32 helix: http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/BenCollins/images/Hitech-Rack.jpg 17:56:32 I think I meant barn :) 17:56:33 Does he have his deceased m68ks and hppas out in the front yard? 17:56:37 h01ger: it's good psych 17:56:45 SimonRichter: Are you referring to G2.14 versus 2.16, or to the current unblock requests? 17:56:47 peters: can i get some buildd seeds? i'll water them every day.... 17:56:49 wuz you built in a barn? 17:56:51 h01ger: and why the 4 freedoms are better than the OSD 17:57:00 helix: is this how he was dressed? http://www.phunnypharm.org/trr/players/ben.html 17:57:03 lool, 2.14 versus 2.16 17:57:19 heh. no. 17:57:26 astronut: forwarded 17:57:38 slef, 4 freedoms "vs" OSD for the CoC? 17:58:11 h01ger: maybe for the CdC 17:58:31 SimonRichter: well, I strongly believe this is a pretty good example of nice communication between the teams, not of a communication problem 17:58:44 0xdeadbeef 17:58:51 slef, CdC? 17:59:01 h01ger: cult of the dead cow IIRC 17:59:11 you guys read the article about Trade-offs in FOSS compensation? some ideas there 17:59:16 slef, ah 17:59:36 Azar: not sure. Got URL? 17:59:50 http://programming.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/23/205211&from=rss 18:00:27 which canidate will arrange for me to be able to get steaks at the dining hall? 18:00:29 * slef will look later 18:00:44 astronut: noted; What dining hall? 18:00:48 slef: can we please close with vi vs. emacs 18:00:53 slef: RPCC 18:00:58 lool, going public with a "can we please push 2.16" would be the communications failure 18:01:23 astronut: no, I think/hope last question should be Maulkin's. 18:01:56 which was that? 18:01:59 slef: Which one? :) 18:02:08 hrm, was it RaphaelHertzog who ignored my ldap update code patch? 18:02:11 Maulkin: train track 18:02:16 slef: ahh :) 18:02:38 hrm 18:03:00 i don't remember that question 18:03:02 what was it? 18:03:11 wait and see 18:03:15 :) 18:03:28 i gotta go to dinner 18:03:30 * astronut will read it later 18:04:07 is astronut ever going to learn to spell that word? 18:04:27 don't be so demanding 18:04:37 * Clint grumps. 18:04:38 what word, "i"? 18:04:49 SimonRichter: Are you saying this is what happened? I would rather describe the discussion as an open question to the release team "Do you think there's time to push GNOME 2.16 in etch?" 18:04:59 "canine date" 18:05:02 peterS: astronut ? 18:05:15 brrr. well. the debate got me to sort nearly everyone below nota. bah. 18:05:43 nearly? 18:05:47 why are you such a softie? 18:05:50 we should all add ourselves to manoj's ballot and see if we can crash devotee 18:05:59 no wasn't RaphaelHertzog, it was Ganneff 18:06:00 lol 18:06:10 Yeah, no nominations. Every DD is on the ballot. 18:06:12 lool, the "public" bit is the problem; it is (subconsciously) seen as an attack 18:06:28 devotee has no mechanism for testing that a DPL candidate is in the keyring, right? so I can participate in your experiment too? 18:06:35 wow, do most NMs not spend most time in DAM any more? 18:06:36 what! refusing $10m! 18:06:38 hrm 18:06:46 broonie: sounds like the OFTC election 18:06:56 helix: Yeah, not an answer I'd hope for. 18:07:01 slef: nah, most time is in AM stage 18:07:02 SimonRichter: By public you mean posting on debian-release@? 18:07:02 Maulkin: Do they have as many people as us? 18:07:06 broonie: 39 18:07:07 the $10M should just be forwarded to dunc-tank earmarked for debian 18:07:07 slef: i did spend most of my time waiting 18:07:08 Oh, look, a worse one. :) 18:07:11 broonie: on the last ballot 18:07:14 bah. i'd take 9 and run to an lonely island 18:07:15 WouterVerhelst: what about giving them to the developers on Christmas day with a thank you? 18:07:17 Maulkin: yay 18:07:20 * helix shrieks at the heresy 18:07:28 -!- jan [~jan@gve-gix-adsl-dynip-138-082.vtx.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:38 Azar: eh, heh :) 18:07:45 :) @ peterS 18:07:52 SimonRichter: Are you advocating more discussions should happen privately to avoid being seen as attacks? 18:08:05 slef: AM assignment, then FD, then DAM, then account creation, each one was longer than the time being processed by my AM, iirc 18:08:19 WouterVerhelst: don't listen to JoshTriplett 18:08:25 jcristau: what date did you become DD? 18:08:32 slef: 20070102 18:08:35 :) 18:08:37 RaphaelHertzog: say you would behead them with a guillotine 18:08:38 jcristau: erk 18:08:47 there should be repercussions 18:09:06 SimonRichter: on private jets? 18:09:12 lool, to a certain extent. This should not be a matter of groups, but of individuals 18:09:14 WouterVerhelst: OK, that makes more sense. 18:09:56 booo 18:09:57 Azar, well, there is no reason to spend all of the money in one year 18:10:11 oooh don_armstrong's latest question is like newt gringrich's contract with america in 1994 18:10:18 SimonRichter: there could be a plague and we could all die and the money would be stuck doing nothing 18:10:26 correct answer: depends who donates and with which agenda 18:10:35 not that most people here are both (a) american and (b) old enough to remember that 18:10:38 give'em debian.net addresses and let them be happy. 18:10:40 bah 18:10:42 ooh good question sam 18:10:43 steve's in raphael's invites? bleah 18:10:44 Azar: don't be silly. people donating that much money never have ulterior motives 18:10:45 Haha 18:10:51 helix, in that case, I'm dead, so I don't care. 18:10:57 :) hahaha 18:11:00 but when you were alive 18:11:15 but 10M was enough to scare some.. 18:11:16 you could have taken time off to rewrite the entire archive in C++ if you had that much money 18:11:26 "A who?" 18:11:38 s/C++/Java/ 18:11:46 Jebian! 18:11:54 Yebbie! 18:12:02 s/Java/CDBS/ 18:12:05 how does one candidate spontaneously? 18:12:09 wow women on the board, that is interesting 18:12:15 helix: Write to buxy 18:12:16 like women are real things 18:12:22 Then you could just run dpkg-builddebian 18:12:23 helix: He called for candidates 18:12:28 i wonder what the relevancy is 18:12:29 he did? 18:12:41 dpkg-bddebian 18:12:44 * Maulkin doesn't quite get the question 18:12:51 Azar: interesting if there are any women both qualified and interested. presumably his answer will discuss his opinion of that 18:12:54 * mc neither 18:12:58 SamHocevar: I think he does lurk in #d-w 18:13:05 I know :) 18:13:08 oh :) 18:13:11 tricksy sam 18:13:24 I think the debian-women subject is a pretty difficult one; it's a clever move from sam to throw it on buxy :) 18:13:25 -!- wajig [~wajig@p57A96F97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:13:39 maybe women inside will help soft the tensions.. 18:13:55 haha 18:13:56 haha 18:14:04 Azar: yeah, they can do all the cooking and cleaning so the men can get important work done 18:14:11 helix: buxy just said he doesn't appreciate you 18:14:12 maybe theyll lead to showoffs, too? 18:14:13 So, a question that I haven't actually seen answered (slef, Maulkin): "What can you do as a DPL that you can't as a developer?" 18:14:20 Well, my answer would be "huh? no. I considered DDs. What difference would it make to ensure some were women? /me looks confused" 18:14:23 helix: maybe they can offer a shoulder to cry on? 18:14:23 I still think debian-women is as big an error as debian-WASP. But my views are known. 18:14:29 Maulkin: yeah. 18:14:35 JoshTriplett: noted 18:14:37 jcristau: I know! 18:14:40 that's ok :) 18:14:46 why are there no women running for dpl? 18:14:46 slef: As an official group, I tend to agree. 18:14:47 mc: I don't get the question :) 18:14:48 is politically correct at least 18:14:55 Maulkin: yeah ;) 18:15:00 slef: As an unofficial group, I can certainly see how it might help. 18:15:08 stockholm: there are only like 10 female DDs 18:15:08 stockholm: branden got tired? 18:15:08 stockholm: probably the same reason raphael didn't pick any for his dpl board 18:15:09 stockholm: noted 18:15:14 Maulkin, slef: Q: will you reform some fundamental document(s) of Debian? Which one(s)? 18:15:16 helix, no, they can refuse to talk to each other on the basis of what they heard someone else said while the men punch each other in the faces to form a hierarchy 18:15:26 i thought it was a clevery trick to... well, i didnt get the clever trick either :P 18:15:30 what are these women things you're talking about? 18:15:32 lool: noted 18:15:34 or they can menstruate all over you 18:15:35 lool: ack 18:15:40 lool: bit late for such a big googly 18:16:20 yeah a female dpl should send status reports to d-d-a every 28 or 56 or 84 days, just to make sure the tone is interesting 18:16:31 lool: are you just going through the NM templates? :) 18:16:34 heh 18:16:38 peterS: heh! 18:16:45 helix, (incidentally, I think Sven and Frans need to punch each other so they come down from their testosterone trip, but other than that, there is no real need for anyone to behave in any particular way) 18:16:47 haha 18:17:03 Maulkin: Err no, I promess :) 18:17:41 JoshTriplett: we can't really control unofficial groups, except slap them for using the debian-name to sell SLES or stuff like that. I'd still not rejoice in them. 18:17:50 I would think women who are working on debian development could be "more" than women... just my opinion 18:17:59 AigarsMahinovs: how can mailing lists be far more intimidating than mailing lists? 18:18:04 Azar: I think michelle konzack is more than just a woman 18:18:04 Maulkin, slef: Q: Would you need to abandon your DPL candidature, who would you recommend as DPL? 18:18:09 iirc, she is also a man as well 18:18:19 Azar: have an ear on their arm like that artist or what? 18:18:23 :) interesting.. 18:18:32 lool: noted 18:18:33 peterS: I meant IRC for the first ML 18:18:35 lool: Reasonable, but easy to dodge. 18:18:35 -!- manfred [~manfred@lichtenstern.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:40 Personally, I really don't see what the person's gender has to do with it. It's irrelevant. 18:18:46 but *shrug* 18:18:46 -!- Ganneff [~joerg@ganneff.noc.oftc.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [useless dpl crap] 18:19:07 why does ganneff always do one of those snide sign offs every year from this channel? 18:19:09 thanks for your comment joerg 18:19:15 He should stand! 18:19:15 I think it was the exact same quit message last year 18:19:42 god bless debian, what is most needed is someone to help bring peace 18:19:46 JoshTriplett: True; but nicer to read than rebuttals :-p 18:19:47 helix: In fairness, the FFA does tend to have less value than the rest. 18:19:51 s/dpl/admin@db.d.o/ 18:19:55 the what? 18:19:59 free for all 18:20:08 oh, well who comes here for value? 18:20:16 helix: hmm, last year it was "too much useless traffic here". close enough I guess 18:20:19 only in the blue stripe sense 18:20:22 peterS: ahh, my mistake 18:20:41 Yeah, Ganneff should be installing my patch into the mail-ldap gateway 18:20:43 a member-relations team and a finance-team. Peace and Prosperity 18:20:47 heh 18:20:53 yeah, debian needs more middle managers 18:20:54 -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Konversation terminated!] 18:20:57 -!- ore [~romain@yeast.orebokech.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [ERC Version 5.2 stable pre-release (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:20:59 not wasting time watching IRC 18:21:00 we need a benefits coordinator 18:21:12 Clint: and a coordination coordinator 18:21:13 one project manager per alioth team(tm) 18:21:16 a buzz director! 18:21:27 are people running out to the parking lot before the end of the game? 18:21:39 :) 18:21:48 Clint: we're just terminating the konversation 18:21:50 I need to refer all of the dpl candidates to this "fetishizing process" article in social anarchism 18:21:59 hahaha 18:22:17 *perk* fetish? 18:22:17 wouldn't jazzercising be more effective? 18:22:26 aka "the question of svenl" 18:22:27 oooooh, the sv*n l*th*r question resurfaces 18:22:32 helix: url? 18:22:38 stockholm: it's not online, it seems :[ 18:22:44 duh 18:22:58 mediation or meditation? 18:23:03 no 18:23:05 zen mediation 18:23:11 ooh maybe it is 18:23:11 meditation would help more 18:23:28 although we've had at least two mediators take good aim at their feet AFAICT 18:23:31 SteveMcIntyre: we had that already! 18:23:35 one was definitely an ack'd error 18:23:44 don't know about the other guy 18:23:54 stockholm: ?? didn't see it, sorry 18:23:56 00:22 <+SteveMcIntyre> going back to an earlier Q: large donations... 18:23:58 nooo pay everyone! 18:24:03 00:23 <+SteveMcIntyre> given a very large donation, I'd love to be able to make Debconf bigger and pay for more of the DDs to come along 18:24:04 large donations for small teams 18:24:08 For those who missed it 18:24:13 paying everyone $6000 / month seems about right 18:24:19 and the large donation question is wrong. we did have an offer for a 4.6million donation already 18:24:21 paying only some will bring bad spells on you 18:24:22 oh rock 18:24:24 stockholm: http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/231 18:24:30 stockholm: what were the strings? 18:24:31 RaphaelHertzog: tinfc 18:24:31 btw, when do we hear about this year's debconf sponsorships? 18:24:38 TINFC! 18:24:43 self or Maulkin: Q from just a Debian user. Debian are also its users, and I would like to know what weight will give each candidate to users. Will users have any capability in the decision taking of Debian or are DD the only one that have this responsability? Thanks. 18:24:43 Clint: no strings 18:24:49 stockholm: er, what happened? 18:24:51 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:24:52 There weren't many ponies out there. :/ 18:24:54 raise the money until christmas and buy toys for all developers 18:24:54 slef: let's have a staring contest 18:25:02 Kebianizao: noted 18:25:10 yoe didn't use the word "expulsing" 18:25:10 thanks 18:25:11 * helix is sad 18:25:25 helix: At least it is recorded on lists.debian.org. 18:25:28 helix: make that vein on your neck expulse 18:25:43 Clint: same as now: we cnat take that, we dont knwo what to do with it. 18:25:51 ... 18:25:59 Clint: so it went into the skolelinux foundation 18:26:00 points. developers who gain more points get icecream 18:26:07 "can you name the reasons it failed" - that's easy. Sven and Frans. 18:26:11 in parts, i guess 18:26:15 stockholm: is the donor anonymous? 18:26:23 an other foundation 18:26:32 os outros são os outros 18:26:54 question: did any of the mediators say to sven and frans: "respect my authoritah!"? 18:26:59 "It wasnae me" 18:26:59 the bill&melinda foundation? 18:27:01 stockholm: and debian turned this down or debconf turned this down? 18:27:15 debconf would NOT have turned it down. 18:27:20 :) 18:27:26 ! 18:27:35 Someone giving us $1M? 18:27:41 * Clint pictures a $4.6 million debconf 18:27:48 dont. 18:27:55 you would go blind 18:27:59 ISTR that svenl refused to work through a translator, so maybe that's fair 18:28:46 $4.6e6 could be used to endow a chair 18:28:46 I thought he generally worked through babelfish 18:28:53 * slef ~/o developers, developers, developers o/~ 18:28:55 mean helix 18:29:04 stockholm: I can easily think of half a dozen things Debian could do with that much money. 18:29:04 you're one to talk 18:29:13 peterS: anatomically incorrect chairs? 18:29:23 JoshTriplett: it was the major "doh" moment for me, too 18:29:32 stockholm: Who made that call? 18:29:37 stockholm: how long ago was this? 18:29:42 uh 18:29:49 also, what is their address? 18:29:52 a few years 18:29:54 slef: well like making the ftpmaster a tenured position 18:30:01 helix: Preferably in ICBM coordinates... 18:30:03 and are they looking for a long lost relative? 18:30:05 2002? 03? 18:30:22 i could have spent all of that money on hookers and drugs by now 18:30:24 helix: Oh, you mean the donor or the person who turned it down? 18:30:30 the person who turned it down 18:30:34 peterS: what sort of hell are you trying to build? 18:30:34 slef: when I said user I meant those Debian fans who are just that, people who use Debian and nothing more, which hopefully will be more and more. 18:30:47 donations should be as voluntary as all work done by debian developers 18:30:48 JoshTriplett: quick, propose a GR to accept the donation 18:30:56 no! donations should be mandatory! 18:31:01 too late :S 18:31:02 :) 18:31:22 ok ok, I will obey the mandadory order 18:31:32 that was around the time when branden was treasurer and lost 20k in donation... so perhaps that infuenced that 18:31:40 bah, who stole dondelelcaro's sense of humour? 18:31:42 !!!! 18:32:03 stockholm: that was SPI not debian and wasn't quite as simple as that 18:32:15 dondelecaro did an outstanding job 18:32:17 slef: yes, it was more involved 18:32:24 now we get to hear don's platform 18:32:25 it's true; spi has a long history of fucking up or outright rejecting useful donations 18:32:36 hate 18:32:52 *whew* keeping at pace with the whole discussion is really wearing, even just trying to read all the messages :/ 18:33:16 LightKnight: I've 4 channels of it. Share and enjoy. 18:33:23 I only tried to keep up with slef's commentary 18:33:45 slef: you must have been gone through years of hard training :) 18:33:49 Clint: it does seem to attract a certain type of people :-/ Needs more pragmatists, more observers and less red tape. 18:33:52 I'm using an 16x16 font on 1400x1050, and it is still difficult to keep an overview 18:34:01 thanks slef , Maulkin and I am sorry I did not know this channel was as official as the debate one 18:34:02 LightKnight: I was an oper 10 years ago IIRC 18:34:09 slef: it certainly turns me off 18:34:11 Azar: try reading topics ;-) 18:34:15 -!- Toadstool [~jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Plouf] 18:34:20 slef: that's it, too :P 18:34:29 Azar: tyvm btw 18:34:37 don_armstrong: And a big thanks to you for tirelessly moderating this debate. 18:34:40 oh I am so sorry, I ruined it all 18:34:50 yeah, thanks to don_armstrong! 18:34:58 dondelelcaro++ 18:34:59 don_armstrong++ 18:35:00 don_armstrong: kudos :) 18:35:20 wonder if there'll be any ponies or apple pie in the closing statements? 18:35:22 don_armstrong++ 18:35:28 or apples and pony pie 18:35:35 IWANNAPONY 18:35:42 i dont 18:35:45 ENOPONY 18:35:49 too much dirt 18:35:54 Maulkin: http://www.tinfc.org/tinfp.jpg 18:35:54 Got a pon-y in my pock-et. 18:35:56 yeah am I the only one around here who has never particularly wanted a pony? 18:36:00 Get my suitcase from the van. 18:36:02 i want someone who cleans up for me instead 18:36:03 peterS: not even for sex? 18:36:05 -!- slef [~mjr@g.towers.org.uk] has quit [Quit: [TalkSoup] Get it today: http://talksoup.aeruder.net] 18:36:07 peterS: no. I am scared of them 18:36:09 not even for sex 18:36:26 * Maulkin coughs 18:36:34 Who wants a pony for sex? 18:36:38 apparently Clint 18:36:49 what gender? 18:36:50 Fear this... 18:36:52 Clint wants anything for sex, I guess :P 18:36:53 he's been hanging around in bad Mexican bars again 18:36:58 -!- avu [~jan@2001:6f8:13f7::1] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:37:01 -!- slef [~mjr@g.towers.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 18:37:06 -!- Lilandra [~lilandra@201-221-64-3.rev.greendottt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:37:24 good luck to all DPL wannabees. may your wishes come true 18:37:37 -!- manfred_ [~manfred@lichtenstern.biz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 18:37:42 well, that wasn't the intended control 18:37:47 the 8 minutes are almost up, I can't wait to see what kind of coherency the candidates try to pull out of the last 3h 18:37:50 * slef blushes 18:37:51 slef: doh! :-) 18:37:52 is everyone going to leave #debian-dpl-debate before the answers come? 18:37:55 that would be fantastic 18:37:56 Azar: wow, that's quite the curse! 18:38:00 damn GUI clients 18:38:54 AT, that came true from all my heart. so when will we know who is the new DPL? I have my Good Luck speech prepared 18:39:11 Azar: you will know when you dream tonight 18:39:19 Azar: a bit before 12 April 18:39:28 I think 18:39:33 ah, time to polish it 18:39:39 Straw poll here after closing statements? 18:39:40 Around Easter night, IIRC. 18:39:44 Clint: who leaves early misses the cake 18:39:48 Azar: ("When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.") 18:40:09 bad prayers then 18:40:10 Azar: you've made me a cake? 18:40:10 well I think is fancy for every org to have a leader 18:40:22 Easter is relative to religion ... 18:40:27 I don't bake, Clint 18:40:41 should you really be teasing me then? 18:40:46 http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/p.htm to look up other meanings of pony and why it's funny 18:41:02 there is nothing ever funny about ponies 18:41:14 try horsies then, Clint 18:41:19 what about when midgets ride them? 18:41:40 -!- WouterVerhelst is now known as Yoe 18:41:45 i'll take minjas over pony-riding midgets any day 18:41:52 wtf is a minja 18:42:26 -!- RaphaelHertzog is now known as buxy 18:42:35 -!- AnthonyTowns is now known as aj 18:42:38 midjit ninja, at a guess 18:42:38 I think we're done :)! 18:42:40 -!- SteveMcIntyre is now known as Sledge 18:42:48 so, who won and who lost in the debate? 18:43:00 slef: Gustavo lost 18:43:13 yes, why didnt he show? 18:43:18 -!- dondelelcaro is now known as don_inlab 18:43:28 -!- don_armstrong is now known as dondelelcaro 18:43:28 -!- SimonRichter is now known as GyrosGeier 18:43:29 dunno... maybe best to ask on -vote 18:43:29 stockholm: nobody knows, maybe he forgot? 18:43:32 helix: http://www.askaninja.com/episodes?page=3 18:43:35 anyway, off now 18:43:37 thanks all, and nn 18:43:38 * Sledge needs to crash now 18:43:40 -!- AigarsMahinovs is now known as aigarius 18:43:44 -!- huggie [~huggie@the.earth.li] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:43:47 -!- aj [aj-irc@azure.humbug.org.au] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:44:07 -!- Lunar^ [67728af6c1@poivron.org] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:44:11 -!- aigarius [~aigarius@82.152.74.5] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Ex-Chat] 18:44:29 -!- SamHocevar [~sam@dindon.zoy.org] has quit [Quit: must. run. to. the. toilets.] 18:44:30 can someone point me at a log and I'll beautify it 18:44:35 beatify it as well 18:44:46 on the irc 18:44:47 Clint: can I just give it a POPE card? 18:44:52 -!- dwatson [~david@planetwatson.plus.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Client terminated!] 18:44:55 slef: yes 18:45:01 * GyrosGeier waits for Ganneff to kick everyone out 18:45:09 -!- curt [~curt@adsl-70-228-83-174.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] 18:45:13 GyrosGeier: he left in a huff already 18:45:20 hmm 18:45:33 -!- mhy [~mark@titus.mhy.org.uk] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:45:34 sigh is over.... 18:45:34 he will love no dpls this year 18:45:35 he was all "this is stupid and I'm better than you!" 18:45:36 helix: better than leaving in a Hoff, I guess 18:45:39 haha 18:45:42 debateable 18:45:49 -!- svena [~sa@62.209.182.200] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] 18:45:57 helix: what, hollow him out with a teaspoon and use him as a canoe? 18:45:57 -!- Mjollnir` [~penny@leibniz.catalyst.net.nz] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [I've had it up to here with all this noise, and all you f***ing boys, playing with your toys, it gets so loud that I just gotta leave the room] 18:46:01 -!- sgran [steve@lobefin.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:46:07 -!- reg [~reg@gcolpart.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:46:14 I want Mjollnir` as a toy 18:46:17 we should let him know that there are still people in here, his sense for order will make him come back and clean up 18:46:19 oh my 18:46:31 -!- fjp [~fjp@ip545593b6.speed.planet.nl] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 18:46:31 are those lyrics? 18:46:37 -!- Kebianizao [~KVIrc@102.pool85-53-151.dynamic.orange.es] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Time makes no sense] 18:46:38 slef: would you settle for being her human steed? 18:46:39 I am always disappointed when people use asterisks 18:46:55 helix: melonfarmer. 18:47:04 slef: if you don't already have a log: http://p12n.org/tmp/debate07.txt http://p12n.org/tmp/debate07_discuss.txt 18:47:11 helix, you should start to program in F*CKF*CK 18:47:16 peterS: thanks 18:47:32 helix: **** ***** ***** 18:47:35 http://www.einval.com/tmp/debian-dpl-debate.log 18:47:40 gah, I'm too slow :-( 18:47:40 how did you learn my password? 18:47:46 astronut told us 18:47:48 whoever got the 403s please retry 18:47:59 web log stalker 18:48:05 00:47:35 ERARO 403: Forbidden. 18:48:13 is that error in esperanto? 18:48:22 helix: half 18:48:26 fascinating 18:48:34 -!- arneb [~arneb@p5484C957.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:48:42 where's arnel? 18:48:58 will be there a big party when a new DPL is elected? 18:49:07 slef: sorry. retry again. 18:49:08 it may be a suicide party depending 18:49:19 -!- cydork [~atul@adsl-ull-137-218.50-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:20 Azar, depends on whether we get a DPL who's willing to spend money 18:49:22 aw you are such a pesimist 18:49:31 GyrosGeier: who's money? 18:49:36 Debian refuses money