DPL Debate Discussion 2007

  1. --- Log opened Sat Mar 10 15:04:16 2007
  2. -!- peterS [~m|ptrS|@adsl-71-158-217-148.dsl.wchtks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:04:16]
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  14. <stew> peterS: you should give us your irssi split window cheat sheet again, like last year :) [15:15:05]
  15. -!- dondelelcaro is now known as don_armstrong [15:15:37]
  16. -!- kevinoid [~kevin@cpe-24-92-253-74.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:16:25]
  17. -!- don_inlab is now known as dondelelcaro [15:16:31]
  18. <peterS> stew: I don't remember what I said in the cheat sheet. but hmmm. [15:17:57]
  19. <curt> stew not cheating ;) [15:19:39]
  20. -!- jatt [~user@pD9E9F9F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:19:51]
  21. <curt> somehow I thought the channel was muted [15:20:11]
  22. <peterS> the other one (#debian-dpl-debate) is moderated, yes [15:20:25]
  23. <stew> ok its just /window new ; /window move {up,down} [15:20:34]
  24. -!- slef [~mjr@g.towers.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:20:38]
  25. <stew> and try not to type into the wrong window :) [15:20:41]
  26. <curt> ok [15:20:52]
  27. <slef> oh but it's much funnier if you do [15:21:10]
  28. <slef> damnit, how do I cycle tabs in TalkSoup?!? [15:21:29]
  29. <peterS> yeah how to split: '/win new' to create a new window. '/win move up' and '/win move down' to move channels around. once a window becomes empty because all channels have been moved out of it or closed, it disappears. '/win balance' to resize all windows to the same size, if they aren't. channels stay in the window they have been moved into, so /win NN and [15:22:24]
  30. <peterS> ...so '/win NN' and ^N ^P etc. have the effect of moving your focus up or down corresponding to where a given channel lives [15:22:47]
  31. <peterS> (preceding lecture is for irssi) [15:23:00]
  32. -!- aj is now known as AnthonyTowns [15:23:32]
  33. -!- SteveMcIntyre [steve@lump.einval.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:23:40]
  34. <SteveMcIntyre> hey folks [15:23:44]
  35. <Leibsle> hi [15:24:02]
  36. <slef> ah, alt-j and alt-k [15:24:36]
  37. <curt> so , do you already have your first few questions or should we start submitting ours for consideration? [15:24:41]
  38. <peterS> another irssi tip: /ignore #debian-dpl-debate JOINS PARTS QUITS [15:24:55]
  39. <peterS> should cut down on the noise you see during the debate [15:25:09]
  40. <slef> curt: 1mo, I need to remember how the debate will work :) [15:25:11]
  41. <Leibsle> you just have to use a GUI client like xchat and stop worrying about lots of tricks and key combinations [15:25:19]
  42. <Leibsle> "tree view" is the bomb [15:25:31]
  43. <slef> Leibsle: TalkSoup is gui, but this will be hectic enough that I'll need keys, I expect [15:25:44]
  44. <slef> Leibsle: also I don't trust xchat. They accept patches from utter morons like slef. [15:25:58]
  45. -!- buxy is now known as RaphaelHertzog [15:26:00]
  46. <Leibsle> heh [15:26:10]
  47. <LightKnight> Three candidates still missing :) [15:26:56]
  48. <jatt> (setq erc-hide-list '("JOIN" "PART" "QUIT")) [15:27:07]
  49. <LightKnight> Oh -- good evening (or whichever part of the day currently suits you) to you, fellow debianites :) [15:27:22]
  50. -!- canvon [zzz@arara.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:27:25]
  51. <peterS> jatt: is that buffer-local to #debian-dpl-debate? [15:27:26]
  52. <AnthonyTowns> slef: "If Groucho was a free software hacker..." ? [15:27:40]
  53. <curt> my #1 Q - what is the most important thing to you that you would like to or will try to change about debian as DPL? [15:27:41]
  54. -!- Maulkin [~maulkin@maulkin.netrep.oftc.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:28:12]
  55. -!- Toni [~toni@85.187.222.103] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:28:40]
  56. * Maulkin waves [15:28:45]
  57. * LightKnight bounces :) [15:28:56]
  58. -!- danielsan [~daniel@leary.ping.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:29:15]
  59. <jatt> peterS: I have it in my .emacs and seems to be set for all erc channel buffers [15:29:24]
  60. -!- padski_ [~padski@ip-81-1-116-48.cust.homechoice.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:29:28]
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  62. <peterS> jatt: ahhh, that's how you live all the time then [15:29:35]
  63. -!- Ig [~ian@chaos.earth.li] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:29:38]
  64. <jatt> yes :) [15:29:44]
  65. <slef> curt: relayed [15:29:47]
  66. -!- arneb [~arneb@p5484C957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:30:22]
  67. <Leibsle> jatt, so you are a true disciple of the church of emacs? [15:30:37]
  68. <slef> are enough people logging the debate channel? [15:31:32]
  69. -!- dam_ [~dam@87.120.174.33] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:32:26]
  70. <peterS> I don't know how many is "enough". I auto-log all irc traffic [15:32:52]
  71. * SteveMcIntyre oo [15:33:02]
  72. * Ganneff logs all channels, always [15:33:03]
  73. <SteveMcIntyre> too [15:33:04]
  74. <Ganneff> and know that many others do that too [15:33:09]
  75. <peterS> (most irc traffic is useless, but disk space is cheap and occasionally I do want to refer back to something) [15:33:16]
  76. <Leibsle> heh [15:33:23]
  77. <stew> anything i write here is gfdl licensed [15:33:32]
  78. <curt> hehe [15:33:38]
  79. <slef> stew: aw, let us include it in debian [15:33:44]
  80. <Ganneff> peterS: load the logcompress.pl :) [15:33:57]
  81. <slef> stew: or have you no invariant sections [15:33:58]
  82. <peterS> stew: what are your invariant sections, front cover texts, back cover texts, if any? [15:33:59]
  83. <stew> unfortunately this beer belly is starting to look invariant [15:34:29]
  84. -!- dam_ is now known as Damyan [15:34:44]
  85. <azeem> "Please post this to a pastebin" is his invariant section, usually [15:34:44]
  86. <peterS> you know now with cc 3.0 we have a credible alternative to gfdl [15:35:00]
  87. <stew> heh [15:35:01]
  88. <Leibsle> for those of you who are hungry - i will eat 2 steaks in a few minutes [15:36:20]
  89. <SteveMcIntyre> feh [15:36:38]
  90. <slef> peterS: with even more TPM confusion IMO [15:36:42]
  91. * SteveMcIntyre is at a dinner party tonight [15:36:48]
  92. <slef> cc-scotland 2.5 was best [15:36:54]
  93. <slef> plain and simple language, damnit! [15:37:03]
  94. -!- Damyan is now known as dam_ [15:37:24]
  95. <slef> SteveMcIntyre: how's that work? Mobile phone IRC? [15:38:24]
  96. -!- mhy [~mark@titus.mhy.org.uk] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [30] [15:38:25]
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  98. -!- mhy [~mark@titus.mhy.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:38:41]
  99. <SteveMcIntyre> slef: nah, hosted at my place [15:38:50]
  100. <SteveMcIntyre> housemate invite a load of friends round [15:39:00]
  101. -!- des [~des@190.7.29.10] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:39:05]
  102. <SteveMcIntyre> they're still nattering while I sit and be unsociable on IRC [15:39:18]
  103. <SteveMcIntyre> it's a hard life :-/ [15:39:26]
  104. -!- teledyn__ [~teledyn@adsl-75-32-149-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:39:45]
  105. <SteveMcIntyre> they're goths talking about sacrificing pigeons as far as I can hear... [15:40:14]
  106. -!- huggie [~huggie@the.earth.li] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:40:39]
  107. <Leibsle> SteveMcIntyre, that should give you the right tension for the debate :) [15:40:54]
  108. <slef> nickspam [15:41:07]
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  111. * curt is a pigeon lover [15:42:00]
  112. <stew> SteveMcIntyre: you could maybe make the argument that in a way you're being more sociaable [15:42:06]
  113. <SteveMcIntyre> :-) [15:42:31]
  114. -!- Pepper [~Pepper@pc057-adsl.adsl.uni-klu.ac.at] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:43:11]
  115. <slef> has anyone here, seen my old friend john^H^H^H^Hgustavo [15:43:38]
  116. -!- stockholm [~andreas@81-27-3-162.c-sam.se] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:44:30]
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  122. -!- WouterVerhelst [~wouter@samba.grep.be] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:45:01]
  123. -!- svena [~sa@62.209.182.200] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:45:01]
  124. * Maulkin waves [15:45:03]
  125. -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:45:04]
  126. -!- SamHocevar [~sam@dindon.zoy.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:45:08]
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  130. * h01ger snogs Maulkin [15:45:32]
  131. -!- teledyn_ [~teledyn@adsl-75-32-149-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [15:45:41]
  132. -!- astronut [~astronut@sfnc-162-39-87-183.sandhills.us] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:46:04]
  133. <astronut> note: Svenl withdrew [15:46:10]
  134. -!- lool [lool@pig.zood.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:46:15]
  135. <jatt> true [15:46:28]
  136. <slef> was that today? [15:46:31]
  137. <aurel32> yep [15:46:33]
  138. <astronut> yes [15:46:33]
  139. <astronut> on -vote [15:46:37]
  140. <slef> ok... I've spent most of today futzing the network... not caught up with -vote [15:46:52]
  141. <stockholm> i wonder if anyone took the time to prepare stuff beforehand. :-) [15:46:58]
  142. <slef> Belkins are POS [15:47:00]
  143. <slef> stockholm: I prepared dinner. [15:47:17]
  144. * h01ger wonders if don_armstrong expects WouterVerhelst to start [15:47:35]
  145. <stockholm> slef: dinner is clearly more important [15:47:38]
  146. <Leibsle> better: without +v [15:48:11]
  147. <stockholm> only 127 nicks, minus some bots!!! [15:48:15]
  148. -!- bertagaz [~bertagaz@ver44-2-82-242-130-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:48:17]
  149. <jcristau> stockholm: that's because you're not a candidate, so your supporters didn't show up [15:48:51]
  150. <Leibsle> jcristau, i did! [15:49:08]
  151. -!- Lilandra [~lilandra@201-221-64-3.rev.greendottt.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:49:20]
  152. <astronut> ...did don freeze? [15:49:33]
  153. <bartm> the 6 minutes are not yet over :) [15:49:55]
  154. <LightKnight> 6 minutes aren't over yet, yes :) [15:50:01]
  155. <KiBi> Time is running fast, by astronut's. :) [15:50:08]
  156. <stew> he's probably warming up his army of floodbots [15:50:12]
  157. <slef> stew: ;-) [15:50:31]
  158. <astronut> when i read "They've already been asked the first question" i assumed he meant in advance and they had it prepared [15:50:38]
  159. <jatt> uh... are the candidates writing their introductions down? [15:50:41]
  160. <slef> yep [15:51:04]
  161. <Ganneff> simple have a bit patience, he isnt running the first debate. :) [15:51:07]
  162. <peterS> jatt: in order not to penalise slow typists, the answers are collected and then pasted in all at once at the end of the 6 minutes [15:51:21]
  163. <slef> astronut: nah, we were giving the missing candidates a few extra minutes [15:51:22]
  164. <astronut> slef: i got that part [15:51:28]
  165. <astronut> then he welcomed, etc [15:51:30]
  166. <slef> astronut: so he couldn't pre-ask Q1 [15:51:50]
  167. -!- KarlNapf [~siklhoer@DSL01.83.171.176.124.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:53:44]
  168. <jatt> peterS: thanks for the explanation [15:54:04]
  169. <astronut> since it looks like svenl isn't participatnig, should Don make a statement that he is no longer a canidate, etc, etc [15:55:00]
  170. <astronut> ? [15:55:04]
  171. <Clint> is Manoj going to drop him from the ballot? [15:55:41]
  172. <astronut> i would assume so [15:56:02]
  173. <azeem> the final ballot isn't there yet; he just won't appear on it I guess [15:56:08]
  174. <peterS> presumably - but he's traveling right now and has the election sitting in 'at' jobs, so if he doesn't have a chance to catch up to the state of the world, it won't change [15:56:10]
  175. <azeem> hrm [15:56:19]
  176. <astronut> The options on the ballot will be those candidates who have nominated themselves and have not yet withdrawn, plus None Of The Above. [15:56:39]
  177. <peterS> I think the 'at' jobs are just a safety line, he expects to be around to tend to the election but he can't guarantee it [15:56:45]
  178. <astronut> svenl has withdrawn, so he should not be on the ballot [15:57:22]
  179. <astronut> peterS: where's he going/ [15:57:40]
  180. <astronut> i don't remember a [VAC] mail [15:57:57]
  181. <peterS> I have no idea, my information is gleaned from his mutterings on irc as he was setting up the at jobs [15:57:57]
  182. -!- mc [many@mc.netop.oftc.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [15:58:28]
  183. <broonie> astronut: Do our elections allow for candidates withdrawing in that way? [15:58:28]
  184. <kaol> liw withdrew last year [15:58:51]
  185. <astronut> since the constitution refers to withdrawing, i will assume so [15:58:57]
  186. <broonie> astronut: Ah, fair enough. [15:59:26]
  187. <stew> broonie: constitution 5.2.6 [15:59:43]
  188. <peterS> even if the constitution didn't mention it specifically, it would IMO be silly pedantry to insist on putting someone on a ballot who has made the clear intention to withdraw [16:00:18]
  189. <astronut> contrary to popular opinion, debian does seem to have *SOME* commons sense [16:00:55]
  190. <slef> not between my ears! [16:01:25]
  191. <Clint> does that common sense apply for 2 minutes before the vote starts? [16:01:28]
  192. -!- enrico [~enrico@81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:02:02]
  193. -!- mattb [~matt@203-173-160-153.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:02:14]
  194. -!- mcg [~mcg@box.cheers.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [16:02:29]
  195. -!- amaya [~amaya@84.77.112.162] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:03:51]
  196. <astronut> Clint: our common sense is used between 2:00 and 2:59 tommorow morning [16:05:09]
  197. <peterS> let me make a prediction on the answers to this next one: they will all be of the form "that's the release team's job, the DPL can't do much one way or the other" [16:05:22]
  198. <astronut> peterS: aj says the dpl can help them work full time on it [16:06:18]
  199. <SamHocevar> wow, you are psychic! [16:06:19]
  200. -!- cortana [~sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [16:06:23]
  201. <stockholm> wow, mostly bla. [16:07:16]
  202. <astronut> SamHocevar: i wasn't claiming to be predictive, i was commenting on his response [16:07:31]
  203. <SamHocevar> astronut: I was talking to peterS, sorry [16:08:31]
  204. <jatt> predictions? [16:08:33]
  205. <astronut> jatt: are you asking what the word means? [16:08:55]
  206. <jatt> no :) [16:09:09]
  207. <peterS> hmmm. this next one, some people will say it's too hard for non-packagers to get through NM, others will say it's fine as-is, others will say the DPL doesn't control the AM/FD/DAM anyway [16:09:13]
  208. <astronut> peterS: whihc? [16:09:23]
  209. <astronut> which* [16:09:30]
  210. <peterS> I don't know who will say what, sorry [16:09:31]
  211. <astronut> raphael is friends with bubuelle right? he'll be the non-packager [16:09:59]
  212. <astronut> aj will be DPL doesn't control it [16:10:06]
  213. <stockholm> lol [16:10:11]
  214. <astronut> peterS: actually, some of them are watching us - you're feeding them answers :-P [16:10:22]
  215. <Maulkin> :) [16:10:25]
  216. * astronut thinks about the wire comment from the last US presidential debate [16:10:35]
  217. <stockholm> they can just cut and paste from this channel!!! [16:10:43]
  218. <slef> nah, think Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and coughing in the gallery [16:10:57]
  219. <peterS> astronut: well, if they copy what I say, everone will know that too. (: [16:10:59]
  220. <LightKnight> Argh, I barely have time to read all the answers before they shift to the following :-/ [16:11:09]
  221. <astronut> #debian-dpl-debate: Total of 133 nicks [16:11:24]
  222. <lool> LightKnight: Try PageUp [16:11:25]
  223. <astronut> #debian-dpl-discuss: Total of 99 nicks [16:11:30]
  224. <astronut> 44 people won't know [16:11:33]
  225. <LightKnight> lool: that's what I'm currently doing :) [16:11:38]
  226. <astronut> LightKnight: or just grab the urls [16:11:46]
  227. <astronut> and read them on paste.d.n [16:11:50]
  228. <peterS> those 44 people include the b|, c|, f| bots [16:11:50]
  229. <jcristau> astronut: and you know how to count right? [16:11:50]
  230. <peterS> errr 34 [16:12:05]
  231. <astronut> jcristau: count, yes, type, not so much [16:12:12]
  232. <LightKnight> astronut: :) I'm more or less keeping the pace, maybe I'll re-read the logs :) [16:12:19]
  233. <slef> nm doesn't test arithmetic [16:12:41]
  234. <astronut> last year someone formatted it pretty and published it [16:12:43]
  235. <stockholm> you can skimm most of it while it scrolls by [16:12:43]
  236. -!- Pepper [~Pepper@pc057-adsl.adsl.uni-klu.ac.at] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] [16:13:22]
  237. <JoshTriplett> Heh. An answer with a footnote. [16:14:12]
  238. <Maulkin> :) [16:14:37]
  239. <Maulkin> 42? [16:14:55]
  240. <astronut> JoshTriplett: that's his second [16:14:56]
  241. -!- enrico [~enrico@81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [16:15:11]
  242. * slef waits for the first WHEREAS ... I BELIEVE ... answer [16:15:23]
  243. <astronut> slef: i'd suggest at the second stage when he discusses the rules, don announces about svenl [16:15:33]
  244. <stockholm> slef: lol [16:16:09]
  245. <fjp> Hmm. Was there ever a decision that the "maintainer concept" should be implemented? [16:16:17]
  246. <Clint> obviously aj decided [16:16:40]
  247. <JoshTriplett> fjp: No. Code talks. :) [16:16:55]
  248. -!- james_w [~jw2328@217.147.94.141] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:17:20]
  249. <astronut> fjp: that's a DSA/ftpmaster decision i do beleive [16:17:26]
  250. <astronut> though i dont' recall anyone against it when it was introduced [16:17:44]
  251. <fjp> JoshTriplett: I would say that changing the structure of Debian by introducing a new "class" of maintainer should be a project decision. [16:17:45]
  252. <Clint> astronut: right, because the project serves them [16:17:48]
  253. <Ganneff> astronut: me, in its current form. [16:17:56]
  254. <JoshTriplett> fjp: True. But creating the infrastructure to support such a thing can happen regardless. [16:18:09]
  255. <fjp> Sure. [16:18:16]
  256. <h01ger> Ganneff, what is the current form? [16:18:19]
  257. <JoshTriplett> fjp: The infrastructure supports various possible changes. [16:18:26]
  258. <fjp> Creating, yes, implementing, no. [16:18:28]
  259. <slef> astronut: relayed [16:18:34]
  260. <Maulkin> slef: you've been reading too many SPI resolutions :) [16:19:23]
  261. <JoshTriplett> fjp: Think about our current sponsorship system; did anyone decide that that should exist, or did people just start uploading packages on others' behalves? [16:19:26]
  262. -!- GyrosGeier [~richter@port-195-158-179-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:20:07]
  263. <GyrosGeier> hi [16:20:11]
  264. <JoshTriplett> fjp: The new model might well support a sponsorship-like system too, with moderated uploads. [16:20:36]
  265. * broonie mails off for his bus pass. [16:20:40]
  266. <astronut> Clint: The Project Leader's Delegates: [16:20:58]
  267. <astronut> 1. have powers delegated to them by the Project Leader; 2. may make certain decisions which the Leader may not make directly, including approving or expelling Developers or designating people as Developers who do not maintain packages. [16:21:00]
  268. <JoshTriplett> fjp: Or, as one alternative, it might support the Debian Maintainer concept. [16:21:00]
  269. <Ganneff> JoshTriplett: with sponsorship you keep the DD responsible. [16:21:03]
  270. -!- beechen [~beechen@e178113239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [16:21:11]
  271. <Clint> astronut: don't quote the constitution at me [16:21:14]
  272. <stockholm> so gustavo did not show up? [16:21:17]
  273. <Ganneff> JoshTriplett: with giving those a keyring and let them upload (their) packages you kicked that. [16:21:24]
  274. <Ganneff> stockholm: doesnt look like [16:21:29]
  275. <peterS> GyrosGeier: you're here! [16:21:39]
  276. <JoshTriplett> Ganneff: True. The idea has merit, though, and needs some consideration. [16:22:03]
  277. * GyrosGeier slept in, fscking phone that was supposed to wake me up went out of battery [16:22:05]
  278. <Ganneff> JoshTriplett: yes. [16:22:16]
  279. <Ganneff> JoshTriplett: im not completly against "splitting" the dd-status to something more [16:22:29]
  280. <Ganneff> but its not that easy *IMO* [16:22:35]
  281. <peterS> GyrosGeier: change nick to SimonRichter, not everybody necessarily knows you [16:22:43]
  282. <JoshTriplett> Ganneff: We really have two questions to answer: do we trust someone to not upload trojan horses, and do we trust someone to not upload broken packages. The maintainer system would allow us to trust people for the former, but not allow them to break anyone's packages but their own. [16:22:49]
  283. <JoshTriplett> Ganneff: That seems like a feature. [16:22:53]
  284. -!- GyrosGeier is now known as SimonRichter [16:23:07]
  285. <mc> bah [16:23:25]
  286. <mc> people have uploaded completely broken packages and theyre still in [16:23:36]
  287. <Womble2> I think it might be useful to add support levels to packages [16:23:45]
  288. * lool . o O ( Or to just stop caring about some when it comes to the question of releasing ) [16:24:30]
  289. <Womble2> Some packages are unmaintained or have maintainers that aren't very competent, or are too thinly spread [16:24:31]
  290. <JoshTriplett> Womble2: Right; handy for users to know the maintainer's status: DD, maintainer, non-developer needing sponsorship, orphaned package. [16:24:36]
  291. <mc> foo-2-1.2-sponsored.deb [16:25:13]
  292. <Maulkin> Ganneff: pfaf, it is :) [16:25:25]
  293. <Womble2> Not just that, but some maintainers clearly aren't capable of doing security fixes and the security team is also spread thinly, so unpopular packages will not get timely fixes [16:25:25]
  294. <Maulkin> HAHAHAHAHAHA [16:25:34]
  295. <stockholm> lol [16:25:38]
  296. <Maulkin> 'spread thinly' [16:25:42]
  297. <peterS> Womble2: the problem is that labeling a package as "maintainer is incompetent" will be seen as a personal attack. what that means, effectively, is that people won't apply that label even when it is justified [16:25:44]
  298. <Ganneff> Maulkin: no. [16:25:49]
  299. <Maulkin> ITYM non-existant [16:25:50]
  300. <astronut> what about sponsored NMUs? [16:25:57]
  301. <Maulkin> Ganneff: sorry, mis-tab :) [16:26:07]
  302. <astronut> i one time prepared an NMU of something and the maintainer sponsored it [16:26:08]
  303. <Womble2> I would say it's up to the maintainer to say how much support they can promise [16:26:11]
  304. <sgran> foo-1.2-MIA.deb [16:26:18]
  305. <astronut> another time he reviews patch, said "Looks good, but i'm away from my key, get someone else to upload it" [16:26:25]
  306. <lool> foo-1.2-I-M-DEAD-BUT-I-STILL-UPLOAD-PACKAGES.deb [16:26:43]
  307. <astronut> foo-1.2-I-M-NOT-DEAD-YET-I-M-GETTING-BETTER.deb [16:27:18]
  308. <Clint> cruft_0.9.6-0.IVE-BEEN-NMUED-400-TIMES.deb [16:27:20]
  309. * h01ger thinks since some years that debian should not claim to give security support for all 15-18000 packages, but only for the 3000-8000 core ones. "dont hide problems." [16:27:23]
  310. <Womble2> Clint: That's rather easy to spot already! [16:27:39]
  311. <Clint> Womble2: really? [16:28:05]
  312. <h01ger> Womble2, if you know what to look for... [16:28:11]
  313. <Womble2> h01ger: Yes, thanks for stating my point more succinctly [16:28:12]
  314. <Maulkin> \o/ Break time! [16:28:19]
  315. * Maulkin can stop concentarting :) [16:28:26]
  316. <broonie> slef, Maulkin: Suggestion for next time: have a bit of warning before the pastebomb starts. [16:28:34]
  317. <Womble2> Clint: kool-shit_0.1.3.5-42_i386.deb [16:28:37]
  318. <peterS> I disagree about the short 5-minute break. I think we should take a _long_ 5-minute break [16:28:38]
  319. <Maulkin> broonie: suggest to dondelelcaro :) [16:28:49]
  320. <Womble2> Clint: kool-shit_0.1.3.5-0.42_i386.deb even [16:28:49]
  321. <stockholm> it makes sense that the GNAA candidate is against social guidlines. :-) [16:28:53]
  322. <Maulkin> lol! [16:29:00]
  323. <Ig> broonie: How would that help? [16:29:11]
  324. <astronut> don_armstrong/ dondelelcaro : i'd also suggest a bigger diffferentiation between questions [16:29:16]
  325. <SimonRichter> stockholm, social guidelines do not work. [16:29:17]
  326. <Clint> Womble2: harder to tell when the upstream version number's been incremented [16:29:22]
  327. <astronut> i would scroll up looking for the top of the flood and end up in the previous question [16:29:28]
  328. <slef> broonie: relayed [16:29:28]
  329. <stockholm> SimonRichter: oh, how do you know? [16:29:31]
  330. <astronut> slef: see above [16:29:34]
  331. <stockholm> SimonRichter: they do. [16:29:35]
  332. <broonie> Ig: I can pretty much follow in real time [16:29:47]
  333. <broonie> Ig: But since there's 6 minutes of dead air one isn't always paying attention when the pastebomb starts. [16:30:05]
  334. <slef> astronut: suggest more [16:30:06]
  335. <astronut> slef: huh? [16:30:19]
  336. <slef> astronut: suggest more questions [16:30:27]
  337. <SimonRichter> stockholm, the only thing social guidelines can do is provide the "but it says so on paper" argument to one of the sides [16:30:27]
  338. <astronut> slef: no [16:30:30]
  339. <astronut> i mean lines [16:30:33]
  340. <broonie> slef: He's talking about formatting, not the content. [16:30:34]
  341. <astronut> =========== [16:30:35]
  342. <astronut> i would scroll up looking for the top of the flood and end up in the previous question [16:30:42]
  343. <peterS> broonie: add an IRC hilight for don_armstrong. that will show boundaries clearly [16:30:46]
  344. -!- Azar [macondo@h-66-166-120-11.lsanca54.covad.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:30:48]
  345. <lool> h01ger: In a way, you can tell whether we provide security support or not since there's a public tracker for public security issues; but it's true some holes wont ever see a corresponding DSA :-/ [16:30:50]
  346. <stockholm> SimonRichter: that is something. [16:30:51]
  347. <slef> peterS++ [16:30:58]
  348. * Maulkin nods [16:31:10]
  349. <astronut> peterS=0; //reset peterS [16:31:14]
  350. <broonie> peterS: I was really looking for say 10 seconds to notice ands witch windows. [16:31:25]
  351. * Maulkin avoids ranting about team@s.d.o [16:31:37]
  352. <broonie> peterS: Any speech in the channel is enough for that. [16:31:39]
  353. <Maulkin> Let's just say: I'm not impressed. [16:31:52]
  354. <SimonRichter> stockholm, that does not help anything unless we are already at the point where we need to punish one side, at which point it is already too late [16:31:58]
  355. <h01ger> lool, i would like to be able to configure apt-get to only install security supported packages. full stop. that i can find out $somehow, which are (not) supported, is barely a hack. [16:32:17]
  356. <stockholm> SimonRichter: punishing might not be necessary. have you ever raised a kid? [16:32:28]
  357. <Ig> astronut Depending on your client, you can probably scroll up before the answers begin and wait for the (More) to appear and then scroll down from there [16:32:30]
  358. <h01ger> an endless number of packages doesnt scale with a limited security team [16:32:40]
  359. -!- Guest757 [~david@AMontsouris-152-1-49-224.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:32:43]
  360. <stockholm> SimonRichter: having rules does not mean you punish someone. [16:32:50]
  361. <peterS> h01ger: in theory the dividing line is ftp.debian.org vs. any other source [16:32:53]
  362. * SteveMcIntyre nods stockholm [16:33:12]
  363. <astronut> Ig: irssi, and yes, but it's not otpimal [16:33:21]
  364. <astronut> optimal [16:33:23]
  365. <h01ger> peterS, in theory... [16:33:26]
  366. <Womble2> SimonRichter: If there is consensus on what is and isn't acceptable, it *should* be enough to say "X, you seem to be crossing the line. Please take a break before responding." [16:33:39]
  367. <jcristau> stockholm: other DDs aren't kids [16:33:59]
  368. <Azar> impressive speeches honorables [16:34:11]
  369. <lool> h01ger: Sure; you were mentionning that we should not hide problem, and I was simply pointing out the tracker _is_ public [16:34:25]
  370. <Womble2> But that won't work if there's then a big argument about how this is censorship and no-one should tell another to shut up. [16:34:35]
  371. <stockholm> jcristau: so? kids or not. [16:34:48]
  372. <h01ger> lool, ah, ok :) [16:35:06]
  373. -!- mattb [~matt@203-173-160-153.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [16:35:10]
  374. <JoshTriplett> Suggested question: Debian's structure makes changes to individual packages or closely related packages easy, but sweeping policy decisions like infrastructure changes (e.g. "new event-based init script system by default", or more importantly "drop support for old system") require a more concerted effort. Do you believe Debian can or should adapt more responsively to sweeping changes, and if so, how? [16:35:16]
  375. <jcristau> so if you tell someone to shut up, he might not agree [16:35:17]
  376. <slef> Is this about svenl? [16:35:17]
  377. <stockholm> it is a matter of learning and adjusting [16:35:31]
  378. <JoshTriplett> Maulkin, slef: See above. Did that get cut off? [16:35:31]
  379. -!- mattb [~matt@203-173-160-153.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:35:41]
  380. <slef> JoshTriplett: nafaict [16:35:42]
  381. <Maulkin> ta [16:35:59]
  382. <astronut> JoshTriplett: "...if so, how?" [16:36:02]
  383. <JoshTriplett> astronut: Yup. [16:36:07]
  384. -!- hilfried_tlerfried [~mv@pD9505859.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:36:08]
  385. <slef> JoshTriplett: relayed [16:36:09]
  386. <JoshTriplett> slef: Thank you. [16:36:17]
  387. <slef> astronut: relayed [16:36:26]
  388. <JoshTriplett> Oooh, a question of mine. :) [16:36:51]
  389. <Azar> create a "member-relations" department to care about members needs and help solve disputes [16:36:58]
  390. <peterS> question for candidates: are we ever going to put up a statue of james troup? [16:37:10]
  391. <astronut> peterS: a likeness or tar and feather the real one? [16:37:30]
  392. <broonie> Default desktop background! [16:37:30]
  393. * astronut ducks [16:37:32]
  394. <peterS> broonie: ah, now we're talking [16:37:38]
  395. <astronut> broonie: something like this? [16:38:11]
  396. <astronut> The Project Leader's Delegates: [16:38:12]
  397. <astronut> 1. have powers delegated to them by the Project Leader; 2. may make certain decisions which the Leader may not make directly, including approving or expelling Developers or designating people as Developers who do not maintain packages. [16:38:13]
  398. <astronut> aww [16:38:17]
  399. <astronut> EPASTE [16:38:17]
  400. <astronut> crap [16:38:19]
  401. <astronut> http://www.elmosplayground.com/wallpaper/elmo2.jpg [16:38:20]
  402. <astronut> that's the right paste [16:38:25]
  403. <slef> peterS: should that wait for the cage fight section? [16:38:28]
  404. <Maulkin> :) [16:38:41]
  405. <Womble2> astronut: Um Content-Type? [16:38:42]
  406. <astronut> Womble2: i'm not hosting it [16:38:56]
  407. <slef> text/plain... is it ascii art? [16:38:58]
  408. <astronut> no, it's a bad webserver [16:39:05]
  409. <JoshTriplett> slef: My browser says image/jpeg... [16:39:12]
  410. * astronut used the previously discussed open-in-browser extension to view it [16:39:21]
  411. * broonie was thinking more of the Ubuntu circle thing [16:39:36]
  412. <astronut> slef: can we do followup questions to these? [16:39:40]
  413. <JoshTriplett> slef: And wget says application/octet-stream, not text/plain. [16:39:49]
  414. <slef> astronut: afaik [16:40:03]
  415. -!- cuvy_ [~chatzilla@pD9E84684.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.77 [SeaMonkey 1.5a/0000000000]] [16:40:19]
  416. <slef> JoshTriplett: I was guessing. I'm screwing up an IRC debate. I don't have time to run wget. [16:40:22]
  417. <JoshTriplett> slef: You seem to do quite well, actually. [16:40:47]
  418. <astronut> slef: follow up: "Many of you talked about posts to d-d-a. This has often been promised in the past, but these posts tend to die out as the term of the DPL continues. What stratagies do you have to make sure you actually make these posts?" [16:41:09]
  419. <LightKnight> IceWeasel showed the DL window to me :) [16:41:12]
  420. <astronut> a little more nice though [16:41:14]
  421. <astronut> LightKnight: ditto - i told it to open as an image anyway [16:41:23]
  422. <LightKnight> astronut: ditto^2 :) [16:41:33]
  423. <stockholm> astronut: that is a lame question [16:41:34]
  424. <Maulkin> astronut: forwarded [16:41:55]
  425. <Maulkin> astronut: dunno if it'll get picked up, but *shrug* [16:42:09]
  426. <slef> stockholm: suggest better [16:42:12]
  427. <JoshTriplett> I second astronut's question. [16:42:19]
  428. -!- luk_ [~luk@107.64-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [I'm leaving] [16:43:00]
  429. <JoshTriplett> To put it another way: do you plan to do announcements only when news exists, or regularly-spaced posting so we know what you work on even if not much has happened? [16:43:09]
  430. -!- rleigh [~rleigh@client-82-12-228-253.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:43:20]
  431. <slef> JoshTriplett: I prefer it astronut's way, sorry ;-) [16:43:36]
  432. -!- hilfried_tlerfried [~mv@pD9505859.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Wohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cya.] [16:43:38]
  433. <JoshTriplett> slef: I agree; just trying to offer another interpretation. [16:43:53]
  434. -!- AigarsMahinovs [~aigarius@82.152.74.5] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:44:34]
  435. <astronut> sweet... [16:44:48]
  436. <Maulkin> :) [16:45:17]
  437. <stockholm> slef: the concept of "everone promises that, promise harder" does not work [16:45:37]
  438. -!- jan [~jan@gve-gix-adsl-dynip-138-082.vtx.ch] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:46:06]
  439. <peterS> what does he mean, cron/apt will help? what has apt to do with posting status reports? [16:46:11]
  440. <astronut> SteveMcIntyre: apt? [16:46:11]
  441. <JoshTriplett> stockholm: Hence why astronut asked for strategies, not promises. [16:46:13]
  442. <SteveMcIntyre> gah, sorry - typo [16:46:17]
  443. * Clint chuckles [16:46:18]
  444. <Leibsle> "you are there not enough news postings?" - i wanted to avoid flame wars and endless threads on the lists" [16:46:20]
  445. <SteveMcIntyre> meant "at" [16:46:21]
  446. <slef> stockholm: suggest better questions [16:46:22]
  447. <peterS> ahhhh [16:46:26]
  448. <stockholm> yes... [16:46:34]
  449. <Leibsle> s/why [16:46:50]
  450. <slef> peterS: echo '@monthly apt-get moo | mail -s "Bits from the DPL" d-d-a' >crontab [16:46:59]
  451. <lool> slef: Question I'd like to ask: Which project management and leadership experiences do you have? [16:47:03]
  452. <peterS> slef: There are no easter eggs in this project leader [16:47:21]
  453. -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Konversation terminated!] [16:47:28]
  454. <astronut> why do people think wikis solve everything? [16:47:29]
  455. <slef> lool: relayed... I like that one. [16:47:33]
  456. <Ig> Did Raphael just andswer a question without mentioning the board? [16:47:37]
  457. <slef> astronut: because they've never had a WikiFarm fill with weeds [16:47:48]
  458. <lool> astronut: Because everybody can edit them! You don't need to appoint anyone! [16:47:51]
  459. * astronut appoints lool the wiki troller [16:48:08]
  460. <slef> "Today, the DPL delegated advertising to Spammers Inc" [16:48:12]
  461. <h01ger> astronut, because mailinglists are so 20th century [16:48:31]
  462. <peterS> astronut: surely you mean trooller [16:48:32]
  463. <slef> h01ger: hey, get out of my mind [16:48:51]
  464. <slef> <slef> SamHocevar: email lists are so 1980s. Let's put it all on a postnuke. [16:49:08]
  465. <JoshTriplett> Suggested question: After aj's election last term, he chose a Second-In-Charge. How do you think that has worked out. If elected, will you do the same? If so, who would you choose? [16:49:26]
  466. <JoshTriplett> slef, Maulkin: ^ [16:49:32]
  467. <Maulkin> ta [16:49:39]
  468. <JoshTriplett> Er, s/out\./out?/ [16:49:43]
  469. <Maulkin> JoshTriplett: erm... [16:49:48]
  470. <lool> Arf sam :) [16:49:53]
  471. <Maulkin> JoshTriplett: Wasn't that answered on -vote? [16:49:59]
  472. <fjp> Is it just me, or is the debate more tame than last year? [16:50:01]
  473. <stockholm> that is a good one [16:50:01]
  474. <slef> JoshTriplett: relayed [16:50:01]
  475. <JoshTriplett> Maulkin: Looking; I didn't recall seeing it there. [16:50:11]
  476. <astronut> fjp: it certainly seems quieter [16:50:21]
  477. <stockholm> me either [16:50:22]
  478. <SteveMcIntyre> JoshTriplett: there was a Q about it, yeah [16:50:23]
  479. <SteveMcIntyre> from psn [16:50:25]
  480. <astronut> though we haven't hit the free-for-al yet [16:50:27]
  481. <astronut> s/al/all/ [16:50:34]
  482. <JoshTriplett> SteveMcIntyre: And most candidates answered? [16:50:38]
  483. <SteveMcIntyre> JoshTriplett: dunno if anybody else responded [16:50:38]
  484. <SteveMcIntyre> but I know I did [16:50:46]
  485. * Maulkin is about 70% sure there was a question [16:50:46]
  486. <stockholm> we all miss sirdinasour [16:50:48]
  487. <astronut> stockholm: krooger? [16:51:14]
  488. * h01ger gently throws a bible at stockholm ;) [16:51:16]
  489. <RaphaelHertzog> <RaphaelHertzog> WouterVerhelst: wiki aggregates data, and then I would send to d-d-a [16:51:28]
  490. <RaphaelHertzog> <RaphaelHertzog> I use the wiki as "report in preparation" [16:51:28]
  491. <slef> fjp: cage fight comes later [16:51:30]
  492. <slef> fjp: also, there's no krooger no more [16:51:44]
  493. -!- rleigh [~rleigh@client-82-12-228-253.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [16:51:47]
  494. <LightKnight> Sorry, guys -- what's the meaning of "in version control" in the last question? [16:51:54]
  495. <fjp> True. [16:51:55]
  496. <astronut> LightKnight: stored in something like cvs, svn, etc [16:52:06]
  497. <astronut> with revision histories, etc [16:52:12]
  498. -!- cydork [~atul@adsl-ull-137-218.50-151.net24.it] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:52:13]
  499. <LightKnight> astronut: thx :) [16:52:14]
  500. <astronut> LightKnight: native language? [16:52:20]
  501. <slef> astronut: or something decentralised like git, hg, darcs [16:52:24]
  502. <LightKnight> astronut: I'm Italian :) [16:52:29]
  503. <JoshTriplett> Clarification: I don't mean "one standard version control system" [16:52:29]
  504. <JoshTriplett> slef, Maulkin: ^ [16:52:35]
  505. <astronut> LightKnight: ah, ok [16:52:42]
  506. <slef> JoshTriplett: ack [16:52:51]
  507. <JoshTriplett> slef, Maulkin: I meant "having a policy of keeping all packages in version control", not "in one particular version control system". [16:52:52]
  508. <Clint> JoshTriplett: what's the value in mandating a non-standard? [16:52:53]
  509. <slef> Clint: tailor overcomes anyway [16:53:10]
  510. <slef> IIRC [16:53:13]
  511. <JoshTriplett> Clint: With few exceptions, any version control works better than no version control. [16:53:23]
  512. <astronut> Clint: all VCSs have some common features (commit logging, etc) [16:53:27]
  513. <LightKnight> astronut: thought that was not as much of a language issue than a technical slip on my part :) [16:53:27]
  514. <Clint> maybe i'm missing the objective then [16:53:28]
  515. <JoshTriplett> Clint: And keeping it on $system.debian.org keeps things in a central location. [16:53:36]
  516. <peterS> JoshTriplett: well, a mandate would be a barrier to contribution by people who prefer a workflow confined to their own machine [16:53:56]
  517. <Womble2> Clint: The objective would be to get more detail than what's in the changelog, I suppose. [16:54:04]
  518. <astronut> slef: "Who can offer me the biggest bribe to vote for them?" [16:54:07]
  519. <slef> JoshTriplett: except for decentraliseds [16:54:08]
  520. <curt> wouldn't most dd's already use some sort of version control already .. what's the point of a public debian one .. the diff is supposed to have all the changes from upstream source anyway. [16:54:23]
  521. <slef> astronut: now now, you've already got SamHocevar offering to let you spank him. Isn't that enough? [16:54:31]
  522. <JoshTriplett> slef: All the decentralized systems support keeping one or more repos on a public server. [16:54:35]
  523. <broonie> Even a centralised RCS could be centralised in your private boxx [16:54:36]
  524. <JoshTriplett> curt: Well, imagine if you could commit NMUs on a branch so they don't get lost as easily. [16:54:49]
  525. <Clint> where's XSF svn again? [16:54:50]
  526. <broonie> Clint: They moved to git, didn't they? [16:55:08]
  527. <lool> It's git nowadays [16:55:09]
  528. <peterS> Clint: used to be on deadbeast.net, but xsf is moving (has moved?) to git now [16:55:09]
  529. <JoshTriplett> Clint: Not svn anymore. Git on git.debian.org [16:55:10]
  530. <h01ger> stockholm, wasnt this "big raid system last year" planned to be used for snapshots(d.o|n)? [16:55:12]
  531. <Womble2> Clint: Of course it should be possible to import packages into version control without that being authoritative, like Keybuk was talking about at DC5, but it could be tricky where the orig.tar.gz itself contains tarballs and the diff contains diffs... [16:55:20]
  532. <JoshTriplett> peterS: Has moved. Recently. [16:55:20]
  533. <AigarsMahinovs> we need a decentralised one, so someone could fork the whole Debian easily :) [16:55:46]
  534. <jcristau> JoshTriplett: where's xcb git? ;) [16:55:52]
  535. <astronut> AigarsMahinovs: they can fork our fork (ubuntu uses baz-ng or whatever) [16:56:11]
  536. <Clint> yes [16:56:12]
  537. <JoshTriplett> jcristau: xcb.freedesktop.org, git.freedesktop.org [16:56:14]
  538. <slef> AigarsMahinovs: but hey, SPI won't let a GR tell them what to do (possibly...) [16:56:40]
  539. * slef runs [16:56:44]
  540. <jcristau> JoshTriplett: yeah, I noticed after I NMUed libxcb, actually :) [16:56:46]
  541. <AigarsMahinovs> astronut: that too. imagine ubuntu being just a branch in the Debian repo and now we are talking [16:56:54]
  542. <slef> do wtih the domain [16:56:59]
  543. <slef> with [16:57:02]
  544. <slef> ah to heck with it [16:57:06]
  545. <lool> astronut: Only some teams in Ubuntu do use bzr [16:57:09]
  546. <JoshTriplett> jcristau: Yeah, sorry about that. We took some time figuring out why that dependency should or shouldn't exist, because we didn't think it should. [16:57:22]
  547. <astronut> lool: i thought the whole launchpad thing forces them to? [16:57:28]
  548. <lool> astronut: Nope; e.g. no single GNOME packages is under a VCS [16:57:43]
  549. <lool> -- TTBOMK [16:57:47]
  550. <Lunar^> Maulkin, slef: (Might need better wording) Other distributions often encounter technical or social problems similar to Debian's. This is even more true in other volunteer distros (like Gentoo). Do you have any kind of contacts or involvement in other distributions which would give you as a DPL more insight about a better solution? [16:57:52]
  551. <astronut> ouch [16:57:54]
  552. <Lunar^> better solutions, even [16:58:09]
  553. <slef> wow [16:58:20]
  554. <broonie> astronut: Launchpad only supports bzr but it can pull from a few other RCSs into bzr or just not use it for some packages. [16:58:23]
  555. <JoshTriplett> Lunar^: Oooh, nice. [16:58:27]
  556. <Lunar^> JoshTriplett: thx [16:58:34]
  557. <slef> Lunar^: Maulkin relayed [16:58:36]
  558. <Maulkin> Lunar^: forwarded, but probably needs rephrasing [16:58:41]
  559. -!- sto_ [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [16:58:53]
  560. <siretart> astronut: there are plans for having everything in launchpad. there is still a long way to go there, though [16:59:02]
  561. <Lunar^> native speakers, don't hesitate to do so [16:59:04]
  562. <Clint> wow, arch.ubuntu.com is still up [16:59:11]
  563. * Maulkin tries to think [16:59:18]
  564. <don_armstrong> AigarsMahinovs [16:59:28]
  565. <don_armstrong> sorry [16:59:30]
  566. <Azar> ;) [16:59:33]
  567. <JoshTriplett> Lunar^: I personally like the wording you used, and I see no problems with its English either. [16:59:37]
  568. -!- sto [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [17:00:35]
  569. <Womble2> Yay for crap interview questions [17:00:44]
  570. * SteveMcIntyre nods Womble2 [17:00:52]
  571. <JoshTriplett> Womble2: No, yay for poor answers. [17:00:59]
  572. <Maulkin> fjp: forwarded [17:01:08]
  573. <sgran> yay for dodging answers [17:01:11]
  574. <JoshTriplett> sgran: Exactly. [17:01:15]
  575. <Clint> my biggest flaw is that i have no flaws [17:01:34]
  576. <Maulkin> :) [17:01:40]
  577. <Clint> where do you see yourself in 15 years? [17:02:08]
  578. <Womble2> My biggest flaw is I'm so superior that I have trouble dealing with puny humans. [17:02:10]
  579. <slef> my biggest flaw is that I'll never be elected DPL [17:02:15]
  580. <AigarsMahinovs> now where is that "I want peace in the whole wide world" question? [17:02:28]
  581. -!- mcg [~mcg@box.cheers.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:02:31]
  582. * astronut wants to see svenl's answer to that [17:02:36]
  583. <mhy> Womble2: we'd noticed :-) [17:02:36]
  584. <slef> my biggest flaw is the inside of the sports hall. Oh, you said flaw. [17:02:40]
  585. <Clint> i said fleadh [17:03:17]
  586. <peterS> my biggest flaw is that, as DPL, I would spend too much time trampling all the little people that got me where I am today [17:03:17]
  587. <slef> peterS: ETAUTOLOGY [17:03:30]
  588. <slef> actually, some of them start trampling before becoming DPL... [17:03:49]
  589. <JoshTriplett> OK, now we have an honest answer. [17:03:58]
  590. <Clint> we do? [17:04:04]
  591. <JoshTriplett> Or a few, actually. [17:04:05]
  592. <Azar> :) [17:04:14]
  593. <JoshTriplett> Clint: The last two didn't seem like dodging, anyway. [17:04:18]
  594. <Clint> you lack the proper cynicism [17:04:29]
  595. <peterS> oy, an ftpmaster question [17:04:39]
  596. <slef> JoshTriplett: what are you drinking and did you pay enough for it? [17:04:47]
  597. <Womble2> Clint: Why are you still in Debian, btw? [17:05:25]
  598. -!- helix [~e@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:05:48]
  599. <Clint> Womble2: ask me later [17:05:50]
  600. <sgran> win 2 [17:05:51]
  601. <peterS> you think Clint should've dropped out about the time mjg59 did? [17:05:55]
  602. <Maulkin> sgran: sorry, you only win 1 [17:06:03]
  603. <slef> Womble2: maybe sheer bloody-mindedness. I'm sure there are some. [17:06:13]
  604. <sgran> Maulkin: I'll take it. [17:06:37]
  605. * Maulkin hands sgran a slightly used hanky [17:06:57]
  606. <JoshTriplett> slef, Maulkin: Suggested question: Name something, other than releases, that you think a specific other distribution does better than Debian. How could we fix that? [17:07:03]
  607. * sgran passes the hanky to slef to pass on to a candidate [17:07:19]
  608. <JoshTriplett> WouterVerhelst: Cut off at ...decision on [17:08:07]
  609. <lool> Snip [17:08:36]
  610. <JoshTriplett> Hmmm, I probably should have directed that at slef or Maulkin... [17:08:37]
  611. <WouterVerhelst> no, I'm here too :) [17:09:03]
  612. <slef> sgran: no-one wants it AFAICT [17:09:11]
  613. <helix> he's omnipresent [17:09:12]
  614. <peterS> uh, I hope nobody is running KDE on his 68030 [17:09:19]
  615. <Maulkin> 23:08 < Maulkin> cut off at [ And finally, I've always felt that the decision on [17:09:27]
  616. <Maulkin> 23:08 -!- #debian-dpl-debate Cannot send to channel [17:09:30]
  617. <Maulkin> Pfaf [17:09:35]
  618. <peterS> those things only support 16 MB of RAM, correct? [17:09:37]
  619. <Clint> i was shocked to see dual-headed gnome on a 70mhz hppa [17:10:04]
  620. <lool> (Gtk is in X11) [17:10:05]
  621. <Clint> but there it was [17:10:05]
  622. <peterS> Clint: nice [17:10:13]
  623. <lool> Clint: Did you check it wasn't a screenshot of an i386 GNOME? [17:10:33]
  624. <smcv> surely an arch that only built priority >= optional wouldn't be considered a reasonable release arch? [17:10:37]
  625. <Clint> lool: yes [17:10:39]
  626. * slef ponders concrete surgery on garden gnomes [17:10:41]
  627. * SimonRichter used to run enlightenment with the "water ripple" effect on an Amiga 1200 [17:10:44]
  628. <Azar> maybe Gnome should buy KDE or KDE buy Gnome and finish with : KDE.. or Gnome ? [17:10:46]
  629. * SteveMcIntyre nods smcv [17:10:48]
  630. -!- Adri2000 [~adri2000@f0017-1-88-165-188-51.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [17:11:00]
  631. <JoshTriplett> smcv: Perhaps we should allow that, if we divide priority carefully. [17:11:05]
  632. <Maulkin> And then xfce can buy them all [17:11:09]
  633. <slef> SimonRichter: I used to run KDE on a packet of cigarettes [17:11:12]
  634. <curt> Q - business is nearly missing from cdd (Custom Debian Distributions) and from a lot of recent articles on why business aren't utilizing linux/open source software this is in fact why .. nothing is available to suit the small to medium business needs in accounting/invoicing/inventory tracking/shipping-receiving. do you think this will be worked on more in your term as DPL and what do you see on the horizon related to t [17:11:42]
  635. <curt> his issue? [17:11:42]
  636. <smcv> . o ( surgeon general's warning: KDE may cause cancer ) [17:11:56]
  637. <JoshTriplett> curt: That doesn't seem like a question for a DPL. [17:12:10]
  638. <Maulkin> curt: fwded [17:12:11]
  639. <JoshTriplett> curt: A DPL can't make software get written. [17:12:17]
  640. <peterS> in practice, priority extra is meaningless, it only exists to satisfy the technical requirement that optional packages must not conflict with each other. every maintainer seems to think his packages are so important as to be 'optional' even if they're way down at the bottom of the popcon [17:12:18]
  641. <Clint> maybe it was for venture capitalists [17:12:22]
  642. <Maulkin> just a sec... [17:12:23]
  643. <helix> dunc-tank can though [17:12:32]
  644. <broonie> KDEing harms you and others around you. [17:12:44]
  645. <astronut> peterS: ftp files stuff as optional [17:12:47]
  646. <schoinobates> if not important, why package it? [17:12:50]
  647. <astronut> s/optional/extra/ [17:12:56]
  648. <Maulkin> curt: not sure how that's related. Can you rephrase please [17:12:56]
  649. <broonie> peterS: Not true, I've moved some of my packages to extra [17:12:57]
  650. <Maulkin> And please hilight me/slef if you want to ask [17:13:07]
  651. <broonie> schoinobates: because it's funny [17:13:07]
  652. <peterS> broonie: you and I are stark exceptions then [17:13:08]
  653. <astronut> schoinobates: what's useless to many is still vital to some [17:13:11]
  654. <slef> Maulkin: relayed [17:13:14]
  655. <peterS> schoinobates: we passed that point a long long time ago [17:13:15]
  656. -!- Adri2000 [~adri2000@f0017-1-88-165-188-51.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:13:18]
  657. <JoshTriplett> peterS: I've marked packages (-dbg packages for libraries) as extra. [17:13:28]
  658. <Azar> my heart goes with mr RaphaelHertzog : one at the beginning and one towards the end to prepare for the next release [17:13:38]
  659. <peterS> prediction: candidates will talk about ubuntu and publicity to the n00bs [17:13:50]
  660. <Azar> :) [17:13:57]
  661. <JoshTriplett> peterS: Sigh, I didn't think of that. [17:14:03]
  662. <JoshTriplett> peterS: I hope not. [17:14:06]
  663. <astronut> is #debian-dpl-canidates publicly viewable? [17:14:09]
  664. <peterS> I hope not too [17:14:10]
  665. <curt> Maulkin, no, I guess I take a much wider view of what DPL has infuence on. it's ok it doesn't have to be asked.. [17:14:17]
  666. <KiBi> -candy-dates [17:14:22]
  667. <helix> I want them to say that gentoo attracts better users [17:14:25]
  668. <Clint> canine dates [17:14:26]
  669. <JoshTriplett> astronut: No. [17:14:27]
  670. -!- sto [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:14:31]
  671. <h01ger> curt, i really didnt get your question.. [17:14:35]
  672. <peterS> helix: whom-not-to-vote-for? [17:14:43]
  673. <Maulkin> astronut: no [17:14:44]
  674. <helix> depends how serious they are. :) [17:14:54]
  675. <slef> astronut: not until afterwards. It says it's logged and will be published. [17:14:58]
  676. <Maulkin> curt: I don't mind, but please rephrase so I understand it :) [17:15:09]
  677. <peterS> well, anyone who doesn't take questions seriously would lose points from me [17:15:15]
  678. <lool> sam++ [17:15:20]
  679. <helix> I wish we had an ubuntu drinking game [17:15:23]
  680. <JoshTriplett> lool: Seconded. sam++ [17:15:32]
  681. <peterS> oh dear [17:15:32]
  682. <broonie> helix: but I value my liver! [17:15:48]
  683. <Clint> peterS: how many points does one need to lose to earn your vote? [17:15:52]
  684. <slef> sgran: I've translated your offer to French and still no-one wants it. Looks like you're stuck with the grubby hanky. [17:15:57]
  685. <h01ger> helix, drink everytime ubuntu is mentioned in debian? [17:16:02]
  686. <helix> yes [17:16:05]
  687. <Azar> :) [17:16:09]
  688. <astronut> helix: how about at debconf/ [17:16:15]
  689. -!- sto_ [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [17:16:16]
  690. <peterS> yay, WouterVerhelst stuck to my prediction [17:16:17]
  691. <Clint> helix: astronut wants you to get him drunk [17:16:32]
  692. <slef> ubuntu can't be in debian. Its trademark terms break the DFSG. [17:16:33]
  693. <des> TST, that's an nice idea, IMHO [17:16:37]
  694. <Azar> SamHocevar started it [17:16:43]
  695. <peterS> but sam at least didn't talk about ubuntu appealing to the n00bs [17:17:00]
  696. <SamHocevar> helix: did you mean "attracts (better users)" or "(attracts better) users" ? [17:17:09]
  697. <SimonRichter> noone cares about n00bs [17:17:13]
  698. <JoshTriplett> peterS: yeah, I think Sam brought up a good technical point, and one that does hold true. [17:17:24]
  699. <peterS> JoshTriplett: right [17:17:30]
  700. <helix> SamHocevar: the former! we need more teenagers. [17:17:40]
  701. <helix> imagine if we had 200 astronuts [17:17:48]
  702. <SamHocevar> hot! [17:17:56]
  703. <KiBi> :D [17:17:58]
  704. <Clint> an army of one [17:18:00]
  705. <astronut> helix: debian would be much more idiot proof [17:18:01]
  706. * Clint chokes [17:18:05]
  707. <Azar> is ubuntu gonna be the yardstick for debian? [17:18:09]
  708. * SimonRichter ITPs MySpace [17:18:09]
  709. <peterS> im in ur debain [17:18:15]
  710. <peterS> how do i worked graphical loginz [17:18:15]
  711. -!- padski_ [~padski@ip-81-1-116-48.cust.homechoice.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [17:18:21]
  712. <helix> oh my [17:18:26]
  713. <Maulkin> astronut: It wants me apt-get something? THAT'S SO UNFAIR! [17:18:32]
  714. <Maulkin> helix: go to your chroot. No /proc for you [17:18:47]
  715. <helix> why didn't anyone suggest we begin using rpm [17:18:54]
  716. <Azar> :) [17:19:02]
  717. <Clint> because no one remembers who bruce is [17:19:04]
  718. <helix> Maulkin: was that meant to be funny? [17:19:06]
  719. <jcristau> right, -funroll-loops is a vital parameter [17:19:07]
  720. <lool> Second time AigarsMahinovs mentions making Ubuntu work more or less in Debian; I think we're past this at this point. [17:19:11]
  721. <curt> I guess the closest thing I can come up with is - do you think a CDD for business applications would make debian more accessible to small and medium business that currently don't utilize debian/open source software because of missing key components neccesary to make the switch? [17:19:13]
  722. <helix> how about a candidate who says: fuck ubuntu [17:19:27]
  723. <helix> that would rule [17:19:30]
  724. <Clint> curt: could you send me a prospectus? [17:19:30]
  725. <peterS> lool: AigarsMahinovs gets double points for also trying to bring USE flags into debian [17:19:33]
  726. <curt> I don't know, maybe [17:19:38]
  727. <SimonRichter> lool, at some point, either distribution will assimilate the other [17:19:39]
  728. <Maulkin> helix: you havent' seen the mails from 199[4-5] from people suggesting dropping /.deb in favour of rpm then? [17:19:39]
  729. <Clint> bruce did it later than that [17:19:53]
  730. <Lunar^> Laptop support in Debian is also pretty slick now... [17:19:57]
  731. <helix> no, that was like 12-13 years ago [17:20:03]
  732. <astronut> it wasn't around woody [17:20:06]
  733. <astronut> we still have wifi issues [17:20:13]
  734. <slef> helix: remind me next year. Ubuntu is the distribution with the logo based on goatse, right? [17:20:17]
  735. <lool> peterS: True [17:20:19]
  736. <peterS> uh, is aj the only candidate who did not mention ubuntu? [17:20:19]
  737. <helix> Lunar^: people think debian's installer blows because no one has installed it since boot-floppies [17:20:21]
  738. <helix> slef: :D [17:20:25]
  739. <astronut> i had to help someone get their wifi working, it "Just worked" in ubuntu [17:20:25]
  740. <AigarsMahinovs> peterS: the proble is those pints are double negative for the ones who would need to make their tools support all that [17:20:26]
  741. * lool notes that Ubuntu already produced as many releases as Debian [17:20:33]
  742. <AigarsMahinovs> points rather [17:20:38]
  743. <helix> astronut: because they hate freedom [17:20:38]
  744. <Maulkin> astronut: I had the opposite [17:20:39]
  745. * astronut likes d-i [17:20:42]
  746. <Clint> lool: how many of them were good? [17:20:43]
  747. <astronut> Maulkin: really? [17:20:46]
  748. <Maulkin> astronut: broken in Ubuntu, working in etch [17:20:48]
  749. -!- stew [1413@rrcs-72-43-105-66.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [17:20:50]
  750. <Maulkin> Yup [17:20:50]
  751. * helix note she's never actually been able to install ubuntu :) [17:20:51]
  752. <jcristau> do the candidates know other distributions besides ubuntu and gentoo, or do all others just suck? [17:20:52]
  753. <astronut> mine's just download firmware, toss in /lib/firmware [17:21:00]
  754. <slef> lool: and upset a lot of users from the end-of-life-ing [17:21:00]
  755. <SteveMcIntyre> jcristau: mostly the others all suck... :-) [17:21:03]
  756. <peterS> well ... even aj mentioned ubuntu obliquely - "derived distributions" with live CDs [17:21:04]
  757. <SimonRichter> jcristau, all others just suck [17:21:04]
  758. <mc> there is something else? [17:21:07]
  759. <AnthonyTowns> (i meant knoppix) [17:21:11]
  760. <Azar> AT stayed nicely away from ubuntu [17:21:12]
  761. <Maulkin> astronut: had that issue twice [17:21:19]
  762. <Clint> good thing ubuntu and gentoo don't suck [17:21:21]
  763. <peterS> Azar: sort of. he mentioned live CDs from derived distributions. that says ubuntu (though it used to mean knoppix) [17:21:33]
  764. <AigarsMahinovs> Clint: they do, but in other ways and places ;) [17:21:42]
  765. <mc> seems ubuntu is a major headache for those wanttobeDPLs. [17:21:43]
  766. <SimonRichter> jcristau, Linspire pwns Ub*ntu for the n00bs, but for some reason, the Ubuntu folks don't seem to care about that [17:21:53]
  767. <lool> Clint: I suppose 5 out 5 Debian releases were good? :) [17:21:54]
  768. <SteveMcIntyre> the major thing that others do better than us is releasing in short periods, but that was explicitly excluded from the question [17:21:56]
  769. <Azar> well was at least an elegant way to say the word without naming it [17:21:57]
  770. <Clint> lool: nope [17:22:11]
  771. <slef> wtf is pwning besides bad cycling? [17:22:15]
  772. <helix> I don't understand the asterisk use [17:22:17]
  773. <peterS> WouterVerhelst calls SamHocevar's bluff [17:22:24]
  774. <h01ger> peterS, i'd say he ment live-package :-) [17:22:24]
  775. <SimonRichter> mc, Ubuntu is a headache since the massive amount of penis envy going on within Debian is one of the causes for all the infighting that has been harming the project lately [17:22:40]
  776. <Clint> ubuntu has a penis? [17:22:52]
  777. <slef> no, it's an arse [17:23:00]
  778. -!- Caroll [~carolina@200.138.102.78] has quit [Quit: leaving] [17:23:03]
  779. <mc> well [17:23:03]
  780. <lool> Maulkin, slef: Q: Enterprise readiness -- what could Debian improve in this respect? [17:23:14]
  781. <Azar> at least it shields debian from the hungry crowds.. [17:23:20]
  782. <peterS> wtf, what does "enterprise" mean? [17:23:25]
  783. <mc> may be, but i wouldnt know if naming the child here is the way to go. [17:23:25]
  784. <JoshTriplett> lool: Elaborate? [17:23:25]
  785. * Zomb wonders how SamHocevar is going to configure his "old farts detector"... [17:23:26]
  786. <Maulkin> Fore [17:23:30]
  787. <Clint> how can we increase shareholder dividends? [17:23:30]
  788. <Maulkin> warded [17:23:33]
  789. <Maulkin> bah [17:23:35]
  790. <Maulkin> lool: fwded [17:23:37]
  791. <ore> Clint: vote aj! [17:23:41]
  792. <lool> JoshTriplett: What features, structure, support could we offer which would make Debian more enterprise ready [17:23:49]
  793. <peterS> Maulkin: also please clarify what "enterprise" is supposed to mean [17:23:53]
  794. <slef> lool: some enterprises actually willing to pay a living wage [17:23:57]
  795. <lool> Clint: + lower TCO [17:24:01]
  796. <JoshTriplett> lool: Elaborate on "enterprise", I mean. :) [17:24:02]
  797. * Clint tosses ore a cracker. [17:24:05]
  798. <slef> peterS: startship, right? [17:24:06]
  799. <slef> starship [17:24:11]
  800. <peterS> slef: a whole series of them [17:24:13]
  801. <Maulkin> Thought we have moved on to rebuttals a bit [17:24:14]
  802. <slef> or tartship [17:24:15]
  803. <slef> your call [17:24:18]
  804. <SimonRichter> peterS, speech recognition and locking up the holodecks when we are close to a release [17:24:21]
  805. <AigarsMahinovs> Azar: the problem is, 1% of that croud is going to become developers. and if they go Ubuntu and not Debian, we might have less developers by 2020 [17:24:27]
  806. <peterS> SimonRichter: good answer [17:24:30]
  807. -!- jacques [~jacques@89.156.37.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [17:24:48]
  808. <astronut> slef: adding to current question "And should these meetings be public or private?" [17:24:56]
  809. <Azar> AigarsMahinovs: maybe those left with debian out of their true believe in debian will do better... [17:25:20]
  810. -!- stew [1413@rrcs-72-43-105-66.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:25:23]
  811. <lool> JoshTriplett: Well, that could typically mean being reliable, being long term maintained, being security maintained, having fixed-response time, scheduled releases, a sane level of documentation and QA [17:25:24]
  812. <SimonRichter> AigarsMahinovs, a lot of Ubuntu developers jump ship after seeing that Debian cares about everyone, not just GNOME users [17:25:25]
  813. <Womble2> Well, to serve the enterprise, Debian needs an Enterprise Edition that costs lots of money and has almost no packages. [17:25:26]
  814. <broonie> astronut: The Debian reality show! [17:25:27]
  815. <slef> astronut: noted [17:25:29]
  816. <Maulkin> Shout now for directed questuons. [17:25:31]
  817. <Maulkin> Please hilight [17:25:36]
  818. <Womble2> And to get Oracle to certify their database on it. [17:25:36]
  819. <JoshTriplett> lool: Thanks, much better. [17:25:38]
  820. -!- yeesha [~rob@cpe-72-185-191-118.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [17:25:49]
  821. <Clint> Womble2: why are you still in Redhat? [17:25:55]
  822. <Womble2> Clint: Because I'm paid to use it. [17:26:12]
  823. <stockholm> Clint: questions to the candidates, not Womble2 [17:26:15]
  824. <Azar> fast release on other distros are done under great pressure on developers I doubt they can be as happy.. [17:26:15]
  825. <Womble2> It's all about the $$$. [17:26:18]
  826. <Clint> stockholm: no thanks [17:26:21]
  827. <slef> Azar: do you believe in debian, even after another DPL contest? [17:26:25]
  828. <Azar> slef: yes and I want keep believing [17:26:51]
  829. <Clint> cue journey song [17:27:00]
  830. <slef> DPL-Factor? DPL-Idol? DPL Academy? Big DPL? Who Wants To Be A DPL? [17:27:01]
  831. <peterS> non-serious question to candidates: DPL candidates sometimes have a way of disappearing from the project after they aren't elected. will you? (if so, should we take this as attempted blackmail?) [17:27:14]
  832. <Lunar^> Mulder wanted to believe... [17:27:14]
  833. <slef> Help I'm a DPL Get Me Out Of Here? [17:27:20]
  834. <astronut> slef: question for all "How important do you feel compromise is as a skill for the DPL? What are some things you would refuse to compromise on?" [17:27:21]
  835. <Azar> haha [17:27:27]
  836. <jcristau> is there a dpl on the plane? [17:27:38]
  837. <slef> astronut: noted [17:27:47]
  838. <KiBi> \o/ Snakes on a DPL! [17:27:50]
  839. <sgran> peterS: that means we should vote the ones we want to disappear highest? [17:27:50]
  840. <SteveMcIntyre> DPLs on a plane!!! [17:27:55]
  841. <slef> KiBi: now that's a film I'd pay to see! [17:28:02]
  842. <peterS> The DPL Identity [17:28:09]
  843. <AnthonyTowns> SteveMcIntyre: hey, that's my platform! [17:28:10]
  844. * helix laughs [17:28:12]
  845. <Azar> those not elected should constitute the official board of the DPL [17:28:13]
  846. <SteveMcIntyre> :-) [17:28:14]
  847. <cydork> Fill all the dpl wannabies in one house? :) [17:28:35]
  848. * astronut wonders who wrote the last question ;-) [17:28:41]
  849. <slef> Azar: his majesty's loyal opposition [17:28:42]
  850. <Azar> for the courage of coming here and answering the questions on the debate [17:28:43]
  851. <KiBi> peterS: Then a sequel: The DPL Supremacy? [17:28:48]
  852. <mc> so do i [17:28:52]
  853. <helix> soylent green is dpl [17:29:02]
  854. <slef> The DPL Ultimatum [17:29:02]
  855. <peterS> KiBi: yes [17:29:07]
  856. <astronut> slef: another question: "VI or Emacs?" [17:29:17]
  857. <AigarsMahinovs> 9 and a half DPLs [17:29:24]
  858. <peterS> astronut: now now, we don't have time for that [17:29:27]
  859. <slef> The DPL Ultimatum: let me spend the money or I take it outside the project. [17:29:30]
  860. <peterS> Twelve Angry DPLs [17:29:37]
  861. <mc> "did or do you ever use ubuntu?" [17:29:39]
  862. <lool> Haha don_armstrong [17:29:39]
  863. <slef> astronut: no flamewars [17:29:41]
  864. <mc> (disclaimer: not serious) [17:29:51]
  865. <lool> "Did you just say the BTS sucks?" [17:29:52]
  866. <slef> mc "are you or have you ever been a GNAA?" [17:29:58]
  867. <mc> :) [17:30:06]
  868. <siretart> PoC? [17:30:09]
  869. <AigarsMahinovs> I what distro you used last summer [17:30:16]
  870. <KiBi> Proof of Concept. [17:30:16]
  871. <astronut> proof of concept i assume [17:30:17]
  872. <peterS> point of contention [17:30:17]
  873. <peterS> oh. [17:30:21]
  874. <JoshTriplett> slef: You joke, but I wouldn't mind seeing an answer to that. [17:30:24]
  875. <slef> Piece of Caca [17:30:25]
  876. <Azar> seriously, debian should become or get back to the "most cool community to be" [17:30:42]
  877. <peterS> JoshTriplett: but that's the sort of thing you can ask them as individuals [17:30:43]
  878. <slef> JoshTriplett: enjoy -vote. [17:30:43]
  879. -!- sesostris [~sesostris@d80-170-155-174.cust.tele2.fr] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:30:46]
  880. <JoshTriplett> peterS: Yes, true. :) [17:30:48]
  881. <helix> prospectus of conduct [17:30:53]
  882. <peterS> prospectus of vancouver [17:31:07]
  883. <AnthonyTowns> not prospectus of canadia? [17:31:07]
  884. <slef> Province of Canada [17:31:18]
  885. <helix> canuckistan [17:31:19]
  886. <peterS> -stan implies a muslim country, right? [17:31:35]
  887. <jcristau> what does "various teams" mean? [17:31:40]
  888. <astronut> peterS: arabic more [17:31:44]
  889. <astronut> peterS: "stand" = land of or so in arabic [17:31:54]
  890. <astronut> s/stand/stan/ [17:31:58]
  891. <Clint> peterS: moreso muslim than arabic, but only maybe [17:32:00]
  892. <slef> ujo [17:32:07]
  893. -!- Adri2000 [~adri2000@f0017-1-88-165-188-51.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leave, left, left] [17:32:15]
  894. <lool> jcristau: seconded; Maulkin, slef can we get clarification on the teams SteveMcIntyre tried to be involved in? [17:32:29]
  895. <peterS> so people who say canuckistan (and many people do), I don't think I get what they are trying to imply [17:32:29]
  896. <astronut> slef: "Can you understand Clint's blog entries? If so, what are they about?" [17:32:37]
  897. <Azar> haha [17:32:43]
  898. <Lunar^> heh [17:32:48]
  899. <jcristau> they're about astronuts [17:32:55]
  900. <WouterVerhelst> astronut: is that required to be DPL? :) [17:32:55]
  901. <peterS> followup: do you read Evan's? [17:32:56]
  902. <Clint> who is Clint? [17:32:56]
  903. -!- chris38_ath [~chris@mut38-4-82-233-119-151.fbx.proxad.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Quitte] [17:32:59]
  904. <helix> peterS: hmm, I never thought it was implying anything [17:33:00]
  905. <WouterVerhelst> Clint: hah! [17:33:04]
  906. <WouterVerhelst> welcome to my quotefile :) [17:33:09]
  907. <slef> lool: noted [17:33:10]
  908. <helix> but now that I re-read, I suppose I can see why you might [17:33:11]
  909. <AigarsMahinovs> that is one of the great isteries of the Debian [17:33:11]
  910. <slef> astronut: noted [17:33:13]
  911. <mc> "i tried to improve them, but they didnt want me" [17:33:21]
  912. <JoshTriplett> slef, Maulkin: Followup question for AnthonyTowns: What obstacles did you encounter attempting to make things happen? [17:33:28]
  913. <slef> never mind Clint. Try krooger's. [17:33:30]
  914. <slef> JoshTriplett: noted [17:33:44]
  915. <helix> "did any of them involve physical hurdles?" [17:33:45]
  916. <Azar> wow good one [17:34:13]
  917. <Lunar^> Why not do the debate with "talk", next time? That would make it more thrilling... [17:34:20]
  918. <slef> JoshTriplett: virgins unwilling to be sacrificed [17:34:21]
  919. <AigarsMahinovs> you like over VoiP? [17:34:35]
  920. <JoshTriplett> Lunar^: I wouldn't mind seeing answers as they get typed, yeah. :) [17:34:40]
  921. <AigarsMahinovs> you mean [17:34:41]
  922. <peterS> AigarsMahinovs: no I think he means ytalk [17:34:45]
  923. <lool> Wow, Java and the GFDL are aj's triumphs? [17:34:53]
  924. <Womble2> ytalk? Wow that takes me back. [17:34:56]
  925. <slef> AnthonyTowns wrote the new FDL and Java. [17:34:58]
  926. <Womble2> AnthonyTowns invented the Internet too. [17:35:08]
  927. <lool> no mistake either [17:35:09]
  928. * ore blinks [17:35:16]
  929. <Azar> :) [17:35:16]
  930. <AigarsMahinovs> I think we shoul have it VoiPed next time [17:35:19]
  931. <broonie> Where did you think the dunc-tank money went, anyway? [17:35:22]
  932. <slef> We want a MOO, so we can invent the rotten fruit to throw. [17:35:23]
  933. <jcristau> he didn't answer the 2nd part of the question [17:35:27]
  934. <SimonRichter> slef, I had lots of fun pointing out to krooger that I believe the dietary restrictions in the old texts are probably public service announcements warning the general public against eating infectious meat [17:35:28]
  935. * Azar gonna read AT's list [17:35:28]
  936. <Clint> Womble2: someone tried to ytalk me just last year [17:35:38]
  937. <slef> SimonRichter: but blue stripe yorkshires!!!!! [17:35:48]
  938. <JoshTriplett> AnthonyTowns: Feel free to reply in -discuss if you have time. :) [17:35:56]
  939. * Lunar^ still use talk quite often [17:36:02]
  940. <Womble2> SimonRichter: They're not just that, but also a way to ensure people don't leave the tribe, because they'll be revolted by the forbidden things they eat next door. [17:36:12]
  941. <Azar> umm yes we want to listen to you AT [17:36:13]
  942. <lool> Lunar^: Yeah; still needed in plenty of places unfortunately [17:36:25]
  943. <helix> ooh factions [17:36:40]
  944. <astronut> only one problem in debian? woah, we're so close to perfect [17:36:41]
  945. <astronut> we're the balkanized distrobution [17:36:54]
  946. <JoshTriplett> AnthonyTowns: We saw most of the successes; I actually had more interest in the "mistake" part of that question. [17:36:59]
  947. <slef> astronut: we're the only gay in the village [17:37:17]
  948. * astronut remembers htis question from last year [17:37:20]
  949. <helix> hahaha [17:37:24]
  950. <Azar> incentive to fight? debian needs a mommy to care about black sheeps [17:37:27]
  951. <AnthonyTowns> i was going to say: but i can't claim credit for any of that; of the things i've done, i'm most happy unconditionally happy about ftp-master getting on a new machine, being involved in spi and helping it be effective, and stuff like that. [17:37:43]
  952. <JoshTriplett> "With our DPL powers combined, we are Captain Flamewar!" [17:37:50]
  953. <slef> SimonRichter: Battlin' Business Units! [17:37:50]
  954. -!- cortana [~sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:37:53]
  955. <SimonRichter> slef, to a certain extent, yes [17:37:59]
  956. <slef> orgh! orgh! get in the back of my cortana! [17:38:07]
  957. <des> slef, Maulkin: follow up for SimonRichter: what incentive to fight an how would you propose removing it? [17:38:13]
  958. <slef> </IRCnet> [17:38:15]
  959. <LightKnight> Uh? I thought we needed the SuperCow powers! I'm confused. [17:38:22]
  960. <slef> des: noted [17:38:29]
  961. -!- faw [~felipe@faw.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:38:31]
  962. <Maulkin> des: fwded [17:38:35]
  963. * mc eyes slef [17:38:37]
  964. * cortana confused [17:38:40]
  965. <helix> get in my belly [17:38:45]
  966. <AnthonyTowns> as far as mistakes go, thinking that the recall vote would be a reasonable way of resolving the controversy on dunc-tank one way or another was a big one; and thinking i'd have time for 10 or so projects of my own during the year was another [17:38:59]
  967. <mc> yummy [17:39:01]
  968. <helix> god, i want DPLs to proposition me [17:39:03]
  969. <Clint> with funds? [17:39:23]
  970. <slef> *** god is away (screen detached, msgs will be recorded) [17:39:25]
  971. <astronut> "Which one of you will hit on helix during debconf?" [17:39:31]
  972. <helix> heh [17:39:32]
  973. <JoshTriplett> slef: Nice. [17:39:36]
  974. <helix> mark shuttleworth isn't there [17:39:38]
  975. <Maulkin> heh! [17:39:42]
  976. <helix> the question is useless [17:39:42]
  977. <AnthonyTowns> helix: aren't you more the type to get prepositions? [17:39:43]
  978. <helix> yeah boyyyy [17:39:48]
  979. <Azar> at least everyone tried its best... [17:39:52]
  980. <lool> AnthonyTowns: Thanks for completing your answer [17:40:12]
  981. * Maulkin propositions helix for fun and profit. Or something. [17:40:13]
  982. -!- bartm [~bartm@kotnet-150.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit [Quit: 5 hours break] [17:40:20]
  983. <helix> I should have specified 'clever people' [17:40:25]
  984. <AnthonyTowns> Maulkin: whose profit? [17:40:26]
  985. -!- Zomb [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [17:40:42]
  986. -!- Zomb [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:40:50]
  987. <Maulkin> AnthonyTowns: Have't quite worked it out yet, but it's not going to be me if helix ever catches up with me :) [17:40:53]
  988. <WouterVerhelst> crap [17:41:05]
  989. <siretart> hm. the new gdfl draft still seems to have the 'invariant section problem'. right? [17:41:12]
  990. * WouterVerhelst threw over a stack of CDROMs [17:41:17]
  991. <WouterVerhelst> will have to clean that up tomorrow, I gues [17:41:24]
  992. <astronut> WouterVerhelst: knocked? [17:41:27]
  993. <peterS> siretart: afaik, yes. that's one thing RMS will not budge on. and since FSF == RMS.... [17:41:29]
  994. <WouterVerhelst> siretart: yes, but the SFDL does not [17:41:32]
  995. <AnthonyTowns> siretart: there's an alternate doc license without the invariant section problem, and the other problems are gone in both licenses [17:41:39]
  996. <WouterVerhelst> astronut: eh, yeah, knocked. Whatever. [17:41:40]
  997. <helix> what abotu the sabdfl [17:41:48]
  998. <astronut> threw over is too close to threw up over [17:41:49]
  999. <LightKnight> What about the WTFPL :) [17:42:00]
  1000. <Clint> quick, someone use a funny acronym [17:42:10]
  1001. <LightKnight> astronut: same thing I was thinking of :P [17:42:13]
  1002. <helix> libpng-ng [17:42:17]
  1003. <JoshTriplett> siretart: The GFDL without invariant sections now seems uncontroversially free, which matches Debian's (perhaps premature) agreement to such. [17:42:22]
  1004. <WouterVerhelst> siretart: and the GFDL can be upgraded to the SFDL provided there are no invariant sections [17:42:22]
  1005. <SimonRichter> des, to a certain extent, the lack of communication between teams makes goals of different teams appear conflicting; the prime example is the mail asking for newer GNOME to be pushed into etch. [17:42:55]
  1006. <jcristau> the fsf will probably stick to its invariant sections though? [17:42:56]
  1007. <siretart> WouterVerhelst: : is the fsf going to drop the invariant sections for tools like 'emacs', 'gnus', 'gcc'? [17:42:59]
  1008. <slef> jcristau: yes. Their adverts are more important than your freedom. [17:43:16]
  1009. <JoshTriplett> siretart, jcristau: Sometimes the people who wrote the manuals agree to drop them. [17:43:18]
  1010. <siretart> WouterVerhelst: I find it very sad that debian is not able to ship documentation for those projects :( [17:43:21]
  1011. <JoshTriplett> siretart, jcristau: That happened in a couple of cases. [17:43:27]
  1012. <peterS> yeah, I'm guessing the GNU Manifesto trumps freedom every day of the week [17:43:32]
  1013. <slef> siretart: we can, but not the fsf manuals. [17:43:37]
  1014. <JoshTriplett> siretart, jcristau: The copyright assignment to the FSF doesn't stop the authors from doing what they want with their code or documentation. [17:44:01]
  1015. <des> SimonRichter: thanks [17:44:10]
  1016. <SimonRichter> des, I think the important bit will be identifying these situations and getting a consensus on the best technical solution that is compatible with both team's goals [17:44:15]
  1017. <slef> peterS: hey, ORA trumps freedom according to FDL [17:44:18]
  1018. <JoshTriplett> siretart, jcristau: So don't ask the FSF, ask the authors of the manual. [17:44:20]
  1019. -!- reg [~reg@gcolpart.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:44:21]
  1020. <astronut> slef: "In what ways do you think Debian can use its resources more effectively? (Excluding paying individuals for work) [17:44:33]
  1021. <peterS> slef: ORA? what? [17:44:33]
  1022. <jcristau> JoshTriplett: i'm guessing these things have more than one author [17:44:34]
  1023. <astronut> " [17:44:36]
  1024. <JoshTriplett> jcristau: Often, but usually a couple of primary authors. [17:44:47]
  1025. <JoshTriplett> peterS: O'Reilly. [17:44:54]
  1026. -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:44:54]
  1027. <JoshTriplett> peterS: I assume. [17:44:56]
  1028. <WouterVerhelst> siretart: so do I, but it's the only right thing to do if we want to remain true to our principles [17:44:57]
  1029. -!- Toadstool [~jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:45:16]
  1030. <peterS> JoshTriplett: that's the first thing I thought of, but it doesn't make sense to me [17:45:16]
  1031. <Azar> has the "chaos time" of the debate arrived yet? [17:45:22]
  1032. <slef> peterS: there's an RMS essay about how the FDL rewards publishers of manuals about free software with invariant sections... ORA was one of the first publishers of FDL'd books IIRC [17:45:29]
  1033. <JoshTriplett> Suggested question for the FFA: "Debian suddenly receives a generous donation of $10 million dollars (US). What should we do with it?" [17:45:46]
  1034. <peterS> slef: oh, I thought ORA used CC or similar [17:45:51]
  1035. <Clint> future farmers of america? [17:45:59]
  1036. <Azar> JoshTriplett: invest it in the market to make more of it? [17:46:05]
  1037. <JoshTriplett> Clint: Free for all. [17:46:10]
  1038. <Clint> ah [17:46:18]
  1039. <slef> peterS: I might be doing 2+2=5, but it seems like fsf were courting legacy publishers. [17:46:20]
  1040. <Maulkin> Right, it's free for all [17:46:30]
  1041. <slef> peterS: ORA use all sorts of things. [17:46:36]
  1042. <Maulkin> Please paste questions, and (if you hilight me / slef) we'll forward on [17:46:58]
  1043. <astronut> Maulkin/slef: "In what ways do you think Debian can use its resources more effectively? (Excluding paying individuals for work)" [17:47:05]
  1044. <slef> Now Playing: Richard Cheese / Rape Me [17:47:08]
  1045. <slef> astronut: noted [17:47:11]
  1046. <slef> JoshTriplett: noted [17:47:15]
  1047. <lool> SimonRichter: I don't understand why you see the GNOME team discussing inclusion of a newer GNOME in etch as a communication problem [17:47:18]
  1048. <Maulkin> astronut: ACK [17:47:21]
  1049. <lool> SimonRichter: Could you -v? [17:47:23]
  1050. <peterS> "when you encounter a tough situation, do you ever ask yourself, What Would Bruce Do?" [17:47:28]
  1051. <slef> peterS: you need to listen to less LUG Radio [17:47:51]
  1052. <SimonRichter> lool, here or on -debate? [17:48:01]
  1053. <Azar> wow each talks about something else... nothing is clear now [17:48:01]
  1054. <Maulkin> slef: heh! [17:48:03]
  1055. -!- eddyp [~eddy@home-324701.b.astral.ro] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:48:06]
  1056. <Maulkin> bah... [17:48:11]
  1057. <JoshTriplett> slef, Maulkin: Oh, sorry; forgot to highlight my question. Thanks for catching it. [17:48:12]
  1058. <Maulkin> peterS: heh! [17:48:23]
  1059. <astronut> Maulkin/slef: "Our best resource is our people" doesn't say anything about using it effectively [17:48:32]
  1060. <slef> never mind sniping, what about singing? [17:48:58]
  1061. <slef> astronut: noted [17:49:02]
  1062. <slef> anyone else with questions for the cage? [17:49:09]
  1063. <Maulkin> Aaaaaaaalbartros [17:49:27]
  1064. -!- schoinobates [~lmamane@2001:888:19f0:2:2e0:81ff:fe54:abf9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [17:49:29]
  1065. <Maulkin> Aaaaaaaalbartros [17:49:40]
  1066. <slef> Mint flavour, please [17:49:51]
  1067. <Maulkin> get your tasty aaaaaaaalbartros [17:49:51]
  1068. * slef can't remember the lines [17:49:59]
  1069. <Clint> it's -batross, dammit [17:50:02]
  1070. <Maulkin> certainly sir, that'll be tuppence hapenny [17:50:04]
  1071. * mhy moves the alcohol away from Maulkin [17:50:21]
  1072. <Maulkin> Clint: not with that accent :) [17:50:21]
  1073. <JoshTriplett> slef: In case it got lost, since it hasn't appeared: "Debian receives a generous $10 million dollar donation; what do we spend it on?" [17:50:30]
  1074. <Azar> I still think that a dedicated member-relation team to deal with inner fights would be best, people with "human side" skills [17:50:36]
  1075. <JoshTriplett> slef: You did ask for questions. [17:50:38]
  1076. <slef> JoshTriplett: I think dondelelcaro is saving some [17:50:43]
  1077. <JoshTriplett> slef: Ah. [17:50:47]
  1078. <helix> boxers or briefs? [17:50:48]
  1079. <Azar> :) [17:50:53]
  1080. <slef> helix: noted [17:51:05]
  1081. <Clint> Maulkin: greek? [17:51:09]
  1082. <Maulkin> helix: noted [17:51:11]
  1083. <helix> excellent [17:51:12]
  1084. <slef> I dislike the idea of SteveMcIntyre defining a sense of humour.</offtopic> [17:51:30]
  1085. <lool> SimonRichter: Here; I fear it would out of context on debate; feel free to respond later though [17:51:43]
  1086. <Maulkin> Clint: 'Camden Town' IIRC. [17:51:49]
  1087. <slef> SimonRichter: go man go [17:51:51]
  1088. <slef> Maulkin: Oxford Circus [17:52:11]
  1089. -!- Zomb_ [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:52:22]
  1090. <Clint> Maulkin: too bad they wrote that before the advent of MLE [17:52:24]
  1091. <slef> oh wait. This isn't #mornington-crescent [17:52:25]
  1092. <peterS> actually better yet, when you find a difficult problem as DPL, ask yourself, "What Would Ben Collins Do?" [17:52:26]
  1093. -!- Zomb [~be@p54ACA4F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [17:52:26]
  1094. <Maulkin> slef: Mornington Cresent! [17:52:35]
  1095. <SimonRichter> lool, the GNOME and the release team are out of sync on goals [17:52:36]
  1096. <Maulkin> heh [17:52:37]
  1097. <slef> peterS: noted [17:52:47]
  1098. <slef> has kalle kivemaa posted anything beyond hello to d-d-a yet? [17:53:30]
  1099. -!- psn [psn@hades.eco.li] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [17:53:33]
  1100. * h01ger thinks a code of conduct really needs to be simple. 3-7 (short) rules, not more. the rest should be "rationale". [17:53:52]
  1101. <helix> I met ben collins. he is a biker [17:54:03]
  1102. <slef> h01ger: enrico's was pretty close to 7 wasn't it? [17:54:05]
  1103. <helix> with a southern accent [17:54:06]
  1104. <Maulkin> "Don't be a dick"? [17:54:10]
  1105. <Clint> is he not a redneck as he claims? [17:54:26]
  1106. <slef> Maulkin: 2. don't be a lynch mobber? [17:54:32]
  1107. <des> Q: "What are, in your opinion, the stronger points of Debian?" [17:54:33]
  1108. <helix> well I wouldn't define it as redneck [17:54:36]
  1109. -!- sesostris [~sesostris@d80-170-155-174.cust.tele2.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] [17:54:36]
  1110. <Azar> :) [17:54:39]
  1111. <Zugschlu5> helix: is that good or bad? [17:54:40]
  1112. <helix> because I know proper rednecks [17:54:40]
  1113. <helix> Zugschlu5: why does it have to be either? [17:54:47]
  1114. <Clint> so he's a big liar, is what you're confirming [17:54:49]
  1115. <Maulkin> slef: "Don't reply to any mail on lists?" [17:54:51]
  1116. <helix> Clint: no [17:54:54]
  1117. <astronut> did anyone answer the 10 million dollar question? [17:54:55]
  1118. <peterS> astronut: not that I saw [17:55:02]
  1119. <Maulkin> That should do it. [17:55:03]
  1120. <Zugschlu5> astronut: aj did [17:55:05]
  1121. <slef> Maulkin: noted [17:55:11]
  1122. <Azar> astronut: which one? [17:55:13]
  1123. <Maulkin> slef: heh :) [17:55:15]
  1124. -!- Kuantiko [~meltdown@cm89024.red.mundo-r.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [17:55:44]
  1125. <slef> astronut: dunno. bumped it. [17:55:48]
  1126. <helix> Clint: I gather that he used to keep buildds in a farm, but to me that is "country" not "redneck" [17:55:52]
  1127. <helix> farmhouse, rather [17:56:06]
  1128. <lool> SimonRichter: worded like this, this is completely incorrect (IMO); the GNOME team discussed inclusion of 2.16 before the freeze and we commonly decided to polish the current GNOME (2.14) instead of pushing the new one in the last minute [17:56:15]
  1129. <peterS> helix: a buildd farm? cool [17:56:23]
  1130. <h01ger> slef, i wouldnt be surprised, i learned the "7-rule" from him :) [17:56:28]
  1131. <ore> helix: http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/BenCollins/images/Hitech-Rack.jpg [17:56:32]
  1132. <helix> I think I meant barn :) [17:56:32]
  1133. <Womble2> Does he have his deceased m68ks and hppas out in the front yard? [17:56:33]
  1134. <slef> h01ger: it's good psych [17:56:37]
  1135. <lool> SimonRichter: Are you referring to G2.14 versus 2.16, or to the current unblock requests? [17:56:45]
  1136. <astronut> peters: can i get some buildd seeds? i'll water them every day.... [17:56:47]
  1137. <peterS> wuz you built in a barn? [17:56:49]
  1138. <slef> h01ger: and why the 4 freedoms are better than the OSD [17:56:51]
  1139. <Clint> helix: is this how he was dressed? http://www.phunnypharm.org/trr/players/ben.html [17:57:00]
  1140. <SimonRichter> lool, 2.14 versus 2.16 [17:57:03]
  1141. <helix> heh. no. [17:57:19]
  1142. <Maulkin> astronut: forwarded [17:57:26]
  1143. <h01ger> slef, 4 freedoms "vs" OSD for the CoC? [17:57:38]
  1144. <slef> h01ger: maybe for the CdC [17:58:11]
  1145. <lool> SimonRichter: well, I strongly believe this is a pretty good example of nice communication between the teams, not of a communication problem [17:58:31]
  1146. <slef> 0xdeadbeef [17:58:44]
  1147. <h01ger> slef, CdC? [17:58:51]
  1148. <slef> h01ger: cult of the dead cow IIRC [17:59:01]
  1149. <Azar> you guys read the article about Trade-offs in FOSS compensation? some ideas there [17:59:11]
  1150. <h01ger> slef, ah [17:59:16]
  1151. <slef> Azar: not sure. Got URL? [17:59:36]
  1152. <Azar> http://programming.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/23/205211&from=rss [17:59:50]
  1153. <astronut> which canidate will arrange for me to be able to get steaks at the dining hall? [18:00:27]
  1154. * slef will look later [18:00:29]
  1155. <slef> astronut: noted; What dining hall? [18:00:44]
  1156. <astronut> slef: can we please close with vi vs. emacs [18:00:48]
  1157. <astronut> slef: RPCC [18:00:53]
  1158. <SimonRichter> lool, going public with a "can we please push 2.16" would be the communications failure [18:00:58]
  1159. <slef> astronut: no, I think/hope last question should be Maulkin's. [18:01:23]
  1160. <astronut> which was that? [18:01:56]
  1161. <Maulkin> slef: Which one? :) [18:01:59]
  1162. <slef> hrm, was it RaphaelHertzog who ignored my ldap update code patch? [18:02:08]
  1163. <slef> Maulkin: train track [18:02:11]
  1164. <Maulkin> slef: ahh :) [18:02:16]
  1165. <Ganneff> hrm [18:02:38]
  1166. <astronut> i don't remember that question [18:03:00]
  1167. <astronut> what was it? [18:03:02]
  1168. <slef> wait and see [18:03:11]
  1169. <Maulkin> :) [18:03:15]
  1170. <astronut> i gotta go to dinner [18:03:28]
  1171. * astronut will read it later [18:03:30]
  1172. <Clint> is astronut ever going to learn to spell that word? [18:04:07]
  1173. <helix> don't be so demanding [18:04:27]
  1174. * Clint grumps. [18:04:37]
  1175. <peterS> what word, "i"? [18:04:38]
  1176. <lool> SimonRichter: Are you saying this is what happened? I would rather describe the discussion as an open question to the release team "Do you think there's time to push GNOME 2.16 in etch?" [18:04:49]
  1177. <Clint> "canine date" [18:04:59]
  1178. <Maulkin> peterS: astronut ? [18:05:02]
  1179. <Ganneff> brrr. well. the debate got me to sort nearly everyone below nota. bah. [18:05:15]
  1180. <Clint> nearly? [18:05:43]
  1181. <Clint> why are you such a softie? [18:05:47]
  1182. <helix> we should all add ourselves to manoj's ballot and see if we can crash devotee [18:05:50]
  1183. <slef> no wasn't RaphaelHertzog, it was Ganneff [18:05:59]
  1184. <Maulkin> lol [18:06:00]
  1185. <broonie> Yeah, no nominations. Every DD is on the ballot. [18:06:10]
  1186. <SimonRichter> lool, the "public" bit is the problem; it is (subconsciously) seen as an attack [18:06:12]
  1187. <peterS> devotee has no mechanism for testing that a DPL candidate is in the keyring, right? so I can participate in your experiment too? [18:06:28]
  1188. <slef> wow, do most NMs not spend most time in DAM any more? [18:06:35]
  1189. <helix> what! refusing $10m! [18:06:36]
  1190. <Maulkin> hrm [18:06:38]
  1191. <Maulkin> broonie: sounds like the OFTC election [18:06:46]
  1192. <JoshTriplett> helix: Yeah, not an answer I'd hope for. [18:06:56]
  1193. <Maulkin> slef: nah, most time is in AM stage [18:07:01]
  1194. <lool> SimonRichter: By public you mean posting on debian-release@? [18:07:02]
  1195. <broonie> Maulkin: Do they have as many people as us? [18:07:02]
  1196. <Maulkin> broonie: 39 [18:07:06]
  1197. <peterS> the $10M should just be forwarded to dunc-tank earmarked for debian [18:07:07]
  1198. <jcristau> slef: i did spend most of my time waiting [18:07:07]
  1199. <JoshTriplett> Oh, look, a worse one. :) [18:07:08]
  1200. <Maulkin> broonie: on the last ballot [18:07:11]
  1201. <mc> bah. i'd take 9 and run to an lonely island [18:07:14]
  1202. <Azar> WouterVerhelst: what about giving them to the developers on Christmas day with a thank you? [18:07:15]
  1203. <broonie> Maulkin: yay [18:07:17]
  1204. * helix shrieks at the heresy [18:07:20]
  1205. -!- jan [~jan@gve-gix-adsl-dynip-138-082.vtx.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [18:07:28]
  1206. <WouterVerhelst> Azar: eh, heh :) [18:07:38]
  1207. <Azar> :) @ peterS [18:07:45]
  1208. <lool> SimonRichter: Are you advocating more discussions should happen privately to avoid being seen as attacks? [18:07:52]
  1209. <jcristau> slef: AM assignment, then FD, then DAM, then account creation, each one was longer than the time being processed by my AM, iirc [18:08:05]
  1210. <Clint> WouterVerhelst: don't listen to JoshTriplett [18:08:19]
  1211. <slef> jcristau: what date did you become DD? [18:08:25]
  1212. <jcristau> slef: 20070102 [18:08:32]
  1213. <Azar> :) [18:08:35]
  1214. <helix> RaphaelHertzog: say you would behead them with a guillotine [18:08:37]
  1215. <slef> jcristau: erk [18:08:38]
  1216. <helix> there should be repercussions [18:08:47]
  1217. <Azar> SimonRichter: on private jets? [18:09:06]
  1218. <SimonRichter> lool, to a certain extent. This should not be a matter of groups, but of individuals [18:09:12]
  1219. <JoshTriplett> WouterVerhelst: OK, that makes more sense. [18:09:14]
  1220. <helix> booo [18:09:56]
  1221. <SimonRichter> Azar, well, there is no reason to spend all of the money in one year [18:09:57]
  1222. <peterS> oooh don_armstrong's latest question is like newt gringrich's contract with america in 1994 [18:10:11]
  1223. <helix> SimonRichter: there could be a plague and we could all die and the money would be stuck doing nothing [18:10:18]
  1224. <Azar> correct answer: depends who donates and with which agenda [18:10:26]
  1225. <peterS> not that most people here are both (a) american and (b) old enough to remember that [18:10:35]
  1226. <mc> give'em debian.net addresses and let them be happy. [18:10:38]
  1227. <mc> bah [18:10:40]
  1228. <helix> ooh good question sam [18:10:42]
  1229. <slef> steve's in raphael's invites? bleah [18:10:43]
  1230. <Clint> Azar: don't be silly. people donating that much money never have ulterior motives [18:10:44]
  1231. <lool> Haha [18:10:45]
  1232. <SimonRichter> helix, in that case, I'm dead, so I don't care. [18:10:51]
  1233. <Azar> :) hahaha [18:10:57]
  1234. <helix> but when you were alive [18:11:00]
  1235. <Azar> but 10M was enough to scare some.. [18:11:15]
  1236. <helix> you could have taken time off to rewrite the entire archive in C++ if you had that much money [18:11:16]
  1237. <lool> "A who?" [18:11:26]
  1238. <Clint> s/C++/Java/ [18:11:38]
  1239. <peterS> Jebian! [18:11:46]
  1240. <Zomb_> Yebbie! [18:11:54]
  1241. <Maulkin> s/Java/CDBS/ [18:12:02]
  1242. <helix> how does one candidate spontaneously? [18:12:05]
  1243. <Azar> wow women on the board, that is interesting [18:12:09]
  1244. <lool> helix: Write to buxy [18:12:15]
  1245. <helix> like women are real things [18:12:16]
  1246. <Maulkin> Then you could just run dpkg-builddebian [18:12:22]
  1247. <lool> helix: He called for candidates [18:12:23]
  1248. <mc> i wonder what the relevancy is [18:12:28]
  1249. <helix> he did? [18:12:29]
  1250. <helix> dpkg-bddebian [18:12:41]
  1251. * Maulkin doesn't quite get the question [18:12:44]
  1252. <peterS> Azar: interesting if there are any women both qualified and interested. presumably his answer will discuss his opinion of that [18:12:51]
  1253. * mc neither [18:12:54]
  1254. <helix> SamHocevar: I think he does lurk in #d-w [18:12:58]
  1255. <SamHocevar> I know :) [18:13:05]
  1256. <helix> oh :) [18:13:08]
  1257. <helix> tricksy sam [18:13:11]
  1258. <lool> I think the debian-women subject is a pretty difficult one; it's a clever move from sam to throw it on buxy :) [18:13:24]
  1259. -!- wajig [~wajig@p57A96F97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] [18:13:25]
  1260. <Azar> maybe women inside will help soft the tensions.. [18:13:39]
  1261. <mc> haha [18:13:55]
  1262. <peterS> haha [18:13:56]
  1263. <helix> Azar: yeah, they can do all the cooking and cleaning so the men can get important work done [18:14:04]
  1264. <jcristau> helix: buxy just said he doesn't appreciate you [18:14:11]
  1265. <mc> maybe theyll lead to showoffs, too? [18:14:12]
  1266. <JoshTriplett> So, a question that I haven't actually seen answered (slef, Maulkin): "What can you do as a DPL that you can't as a developer?" [18:14:13]
  1267. <Maulkin> Well, my answer would be "huh? no. I considered DDs. What difference would it make to ensure some were women? /me looks confused" [18:14:20]
  1268. <Azar> helix: maybe they can offer a shoulder to cry on? [18:14:23]
  1269. <slef> I still think debian-women is as big an error as debian-WASP. But my views are known. [18:14:23]
  1270. <mc> Maulkin: yeah. [18:14:29]
  1271. <slef> JoshTriplett: noted [18:14:35]
  1272. <helix> jcristau: I know! [18:14:37]
  1273. <helix> that's ok :) [18:14:40]
  1274. <stockholm> why are there no women running for dpl? [18:14:46]
  1275. <JoshTriplett> slef: As an official group, I tend to agree. [18:14:46]
  1276. <Maulkin> mc: I don't get the question :) [18:14:47]
  1277. <Azar> is politically correct at least [18:14:48]
  1278. <mc> Maulkin: yeah ;) [18:14:55]
  1279. <JoshTriplett> slef: As an unofficial group, I can certainly see how it might help. [18:15:00]
  1280. <helix> stockholm: there are only like 10 female DDs [18:15:08]
  1281. <Clint> stockholm: branden got tired? [18:15:08]
  1282. <peterS> stockholm: probably the same reason raphael didn't pick any for his dpl board [18:15:08]
  1283. <slef> stockholm: noted [18:15:09]
  1284. <lool> Maulkin, slef: Q: will you reform some fundamental document(s) of Debian? Which one(s)? [18:15:14]
  1285. <SimonRichter> helix, no, they can refuse to talk to each other on the basis of what they heard someone else said while the men punch each other in the faces to form a hierarchy [18:15:16]
  1286. <mc> i thought it was a clevery trick to... well, i didnt get the clever trick either :P [18:15:26]
  1287. <Clint> what are these women things you're talking about? [18:15:30]
  1288. <slef> lool: noted [18:15:32]
  1289. <helix> or they can menstruate all over you [18:15:34]
  1290. <Maulkin> lool: ack [18:15:35]
  1291. <slef> lool: bit late for such a big googly [18:15:40]
  1292. <peterS> yeah a female dpl should send status reports to d-d-a every 28 or 56 or 84 days, just to make sure the tone is interesting [18:16:20]
  1293. <Maulkin> lool: are you just going through the NM templates? :) [18:16:31]
  1294. <helix> heh [18:16:34]
  1295. <Maulkin> peterS: heh! [18:16:38]
  1296. <SimonRichter> helix, (incidentally, I think Sven and Frans need to punch each other so they come down from their testosterone trip, but other than that, there is no real need for anyone to behave in any particular way) [18:16:45]
  1297. <Azar> haha [18:16:47]
  1298. <lool> Maulkin: Err no, I promess :) [18:17:03]
  1299. <slef> JoshTriplett: we can't really control unofficial groups, except slap them for using the debian-name to sell SLES or stuff like that. I'd still not rejoice in them. [18:17:41]
  1300. <Azar> I would think women who are working on debian development could be "more" than women... just my opinion [18:17:50]
  1301. <peterS> AigarsMahinovs: how can mailing lists be far more intimidating than mailing lists? [18:17:59]
  1302. <helix> Azar: I think michelle konzack is more than just a woman [18:18:04]
  1303. <lool> Maulkin, slef: Q: Would you need to abandon your DPL candidature, who would you recommend as DPL? [18:18:04]
  1304. <helix> iirc, she is also a man as well [18:18:09]
  1305. <slef> Azar: have an ear on their arm like that artist or what? [18:18:19]
  1306. <Azar> :) interesting.. [18:18:23]
  1307. <slef> lool: noted [18:18:32]
  1308. <AigarsMahinovs> peterS: I meant IRC for the first ML [18:18:33]
  1309. <JoshTriplett> lool: Reasonable, but easy to dodge. [18:18:35]
  1310. -!- manfred [~manfred@lichtenstern.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [18:18:35]
  1311. <Maulkin> Personally, I really don't see what the person's gender has to do with it. It's irrelevant. [18:18:40]
  1312. <Maulkin> but *shrug* [18:18:46]
  1313. -!- Ganneff [~joerg@ganneff.noc.oftc.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [useless dpl crap] [18:18:46]
  1314. <helix> why does ganneff always do one of those snide sign offs every year from this channel? [18:19:07]
  1315. <jcristau> thanks for your comment joerg [18:19:09]
  1316. <broonie> He should stand! [18:19:15]
  1317. <helix> I think it was the exact same quit message last year [18:19:15]
  1318. <Azar> god bless debian, what is most needed is someone to help bring peace [18:19:42]
  1319. <lool> JoshTriplett: True; but nicer to read than rebuttals :-p [18:19:46]
  1320. <JoshTriplett> helix: In fairness, the FFA does tend to have less value than the rest. [18:19:47]
  1321. <slef> s/dpl/admin@db.d.o/ [18:19:51]
  1322. <helix> the what? [18:19:55]
  1323. <slef> free for all [18:19:59]
  1324. <helix> oh, well who comes here for value? [18:20:08]
  1325. <peterS> helix: hmm, last year it was "too much useless traffic here". close enough I guess [18:20:16]
  1326. <slef> only in the blue stripe sense [18:20:19]
  1327. <helix> peterS: ahh, my mistake [18:20:22]
  1328. <slef> Yeah, Ganneff should be installing my patch into the mail-ldap gateway [18:20:41]
  1329. <Azar> a member-relations team and a finance-team. Peace and Prosperity [18:20:43]
  1330. <helix> heh [18:20:47]
  1331. <helix> yeah, debian needs more middle managers [18:20:53]
  1332. -!- Abraham [~Abraham@99-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Konversation terminated!] [18:20:54]
  1333. -!- ore [~romain@yeast.orebokech.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [ERC Version 5.2 stable pre-release (IRC client for Emacs)] [18:20:57]
  1334. <slef> not wasting time watching IRC [18:20:59]
  1335. <Clint> we need a benefits coordinator [18:21:00]
  1336. <slef> Clint: and a coordination coordinator [18:21:12]
  1337. <helix> one project manager per alioth team(tm) [18:21:13]
  1338. <lool> a buzz director! [18:21:16]
  1339. <Clint> are people running out to the parking lot before the end of the game? [18:21:27]
  1340. <Azar> :) [18:21:39]
  1341. <peterS> Clint: we're just terminating the konversation [18:21:48]
  1342. <helix> I need to refer all of the dpl candidates to this "fetishizing process" article in social anarchism [18:21:50]
  1343. <helix> hahaha [18:21:59]
  1344. <Zugschlu5> *perk* fetish? [18:22:17]
  1345. <Clint> wouldn't jazzercising be more effective? [18:22:17]
  1346. <lool> aka "the question of svenl" [18:22:26]
  1347. <peterS> oooooh, the sv*n l*th*r question resurfaces [18:22:27]
  1348. <stockholm> helix: url? [18:22:32]
  1349. <helix> stockholm: it's not online, it seems :[ [18:22:38]
  1350. <stockholm> duh [18:22:44]
  1351. <Azar> mediation or meditation? [18:22:58]
  1352. <Clint> no [18:23:03]
  1353. <peterS> zen mediation [18:23:05]
  1354. <helix> ooh maybe it is [18:23:11]
  1355. <slef> meditation would help more [18:23:11]
  1356. <slef> although we've had at least two mediators take good aim at their feet AFAICT [18:23:28]
  1357. <stockholm> SteveMcIntyre: we had that already! [18:23:31]
  1358. <slef> one was definitely an ack'd error [18:23:35]
  1359. <slef> don't know about the other guy [18:23:44]
  1360. <SteveMcIntyre> stockholm: ?? didn't see it, sorry [18:23:54]
  1361. <Maulkin> 00:22 <+SteveMcIntyre> going back to an earlier Q: large donations... [18:23:56]
  1362. <Azar> nooo pay everyone! [18:23:58]
  1363. <Maulkin> 00:23 <+SteveMcIntyre> given a very large donation, I'd love to be able to make Debconf bigger and pay for more of the DDs to come along [18:24:03]
  1364. <helix> large donations for small teams [18:24:04]
  1365. <Maulkin> For those who missed it [18:24:08]
  1366. <peterS> paying everyone $6000 / month seems about right [18:24:13]
  1367. <stockholm> and the large donation question is wrong. we did have an offer for a 4.6million donation already [18:24:19]
  1368. <Azar> paying only some will bring bad spells on you [18:24:21]
  1369. <helix> oh rock [18:24:22]
  1370. <helix> stockholm: http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/231 [18:24:24]
  1371. <Clint> stockholm: what were the strings? [18:24:30]
  1372. <jcristau> RaphaelHertzog: tinfc [18:24:31]
  1373. <slef> btw, when do we hear about this year's debconf sponsorships? [18:24:31]
  1374. <KiBi> TINFC! [18:24:38]
  1375. <Kebianizao> self or Maulkin: Q from just a Debian user. Debian are also its users, and I would like to know what weight will give each candidate to users. Will users have any capability in the decision taking of Debian or are DD the only one that have this responsability? Thanks. [18:24:43]
  1376. <stockholm> Clint: no strings [18:24:43]
  1377. <Clint> stockholm: er, what happened? [18:24:49]
  1378. -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:24:51]
  1379. <KiBi> There weren't many ponies out there. :/ [18:24:52]
  1380. <Azar> raise the money until christmas and buy toys for all developers [18:24:54]
  1381. <helix> slef: let's have a staring contest [18:24:54]
  1382. <slef> Kebianizao: noted [18:25:02]
  1383. <helix> yoe didn't use the word "expulsing" [18:25:10]
  1384. <Kebianizao> thanks [18:25:10]
  1385. * helix is sad [18:25:11]
  1386. <KiBi> helix: At least it is recorded on lists.debian.org. [18:25:25]
  1387. <Clint> helix: make that vein on your neck expulse [18:25:28]
  1388. <stockholm> Clint: same as now: we cnat take that, we dont knwo what to do with it. [18:25:43]
  1389. <Clint> ... [18:25:51]
  1390. <stockholm> Clint: so it went into the skolelinux foundation [18:25:59]
  1391. <Azar> points. developers who gain more points get icecream [18:26:00]
  1392. <peterS> "can you name the reasons it failed" - that's easy. Sven and Frans. [18:26:07]
  1393. <stockholm> in parts, i guess [18:26:11]
  1394. <Clint> stockholm: is the donor anonymous? [18:26:15]
  1395. <stockholm> an other foundation [18:26:23]
  1396. 18:26:32 <helix> os outros s?o os outros
  1397. <helix> question: did any of the mediators say to sven and frans: "respect my authoritah!"? [18:26:54]
  1398. <slef> "It wasnae me" [18:26:59]
  1399. <jcristau> the bill&melinda foundation? [18:26:59]
  1400. <Clint> stockholm: and debian turned this down or debconf turned this down? [18:27:01]
  1401. <stockholm> debconf would NOT have turned it down. [18:27:15]
  1402. <stockholm> :) [18:27:20]
  1403. <Maulkin> ! [18:27:26]
  1404. <Maulkin> Someone giving us $1M? [18:27:35]
  1405. * Clint pictures a $4.6 million debconf [18:27:41]
  1406. <stockholm> dont. [18:27:48]
  1407. <stockholm> you would go blind [18:27:55]
  1408. <slef> ISTR that svenl refused to work through a translator, so maybe that's fair [18:27:59]
  1409. <peterS> $4.6e6 could be used to endow a chair [18:28:46]
  1410. <helix> I thought he generally worked through babelfish [18:28:46]
  1411. * slef ~/o developers, developers, developers o/~ [18:28:53]
  1412. <Zugschlu5> mean helix [18:28:55]
  1413. <JoshTriplett> stockholm: I can easily think of half a dozen things Debian could do with that much money. [18:29:04]
  1414. <helix> you're one to talk [18:29:04]
  1415. <slef> peterS: anatomically incorrect chairs? [18:29:13]
  1416. <stockholm> JoshTriplett: it was the major "doh" moment for me, too [18:29:23]
  1417. <JoshTriplett> stockholm: Who made that call? [18:29:32]
  1418. <Clint> stockholm: how long ago was this? [18:29:37]
  1419. <stockholm> uh [18:29:42]
  1420. <helix> also, what is their address? [18:29:49]
  1421. <stockholm> a few years [18:29:52]
  1422. <peterS> slef: well like making the ftpmaster a tenured position [18:29:54]
  1423. <JoshTriplett> helix: Preferably in ICBM coordinates... [18:30:01]
  1424. <slef> and are they looking for a long lost relative? [18:30:03]
  1425. <stockholm> 2002? 03? [18:30:05]
  1426. <helix> i could have spent all of that money on hookers and drugs by now [18:30:22]
  1427. <JoshTriplett> helix: Oh, you mean the donor or the person who turned it down? [18:30:24]
  1428. <helix> the person who turned it down [18:30:30]
  1429. <slef> peterS: what sort of hell are you trying to build? [18:30:34]
  1430. <Kebianizao> slef: when I said user I meant those Debian fans who are just that, people who use Debian and nothing more, which hopefully will be more and more. [18:30:34]
  1431. <Azar> donations should be as voluntary as all work done by debian developers [18:30:47]
  1432. <Clint> JoshTriplett: quick, propose a GR to accept the donation [18:30:48]
  1433. <peterS> no! donations should be mandatory! [18:30:56]
  1434. <Kebianizao> too late :S [18:31:01]
  1435. <Azar> :) [18:31:02]
  1436. <Azar> ok ok, I will obey the mandadory order [18:31:22]
  1437. <stockholm> that was around the time when branden was treasurer and lost 20k in donation... so perhaps that infuenced that [18:31:32]
  1438. <slef> bah, who stole dondelelcaro's sense of humour? [18:31:40]
  1439. <helix> !!!! [18:31:42]
  1440. <slef> stockholm: that was SPI not debian and wasn't quite as simple as that [18:32:03]
  1441. <Azar> dondelecaro did an outstanding job [18:32:15]
  1442. <stockholm> slef: yes, it was more involved [18:32:17]
  1443. <peterS> now we get to hear don's platform [18:32:24]
  1444. <Clint> it's true; spi has a long history of fucking up or outright rejecting useful donations [18:32:25]
  1445. <helix> hate [18:32:36]
  1446. <LightKnight> *whew* keeping at pace with the whole discussion is really wearing, even just trying to read all the messages :/ [18:32:52]
  1447. <slef> LightKnight: I've 4 channels of it. Share and enjoy. [18:33:16]
  1448. <helix> I only tried to keep up with slef's commentary [18:33:23]
  1449. <LightKnight> slef: you must have been gone through years of hard training :) [18:33:45]
  1450. <slef> Clint: it does seem to attract a certain type of people :-/ Needs more pragmatists, more observers and less red tape. [18:33:49]
  1451. <SimonRichter> I'm using an 16x16 font on 1400x1050, and it is still difficult to keep an overview [18:33:52]
  1452. <Azar> thanks slef , Maulkin and I am sorry I did not know this channel was as official as the debate one [18:34:01]
  1453. <slef> LightKnight: I was an oper 10 years ago IIRC [18:34:02]
  1454. <Clint> slef: it certainly turns me off [18:34:09]
  1455. <slef> Azar: try reading topics ;-) [18:34:11]
  1456. -!- Toadstool [~jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Plouf] [18:34:15]
  1457. <LightKnight> slef: that's it, too :P [18:34:20]
  1458. <slef> Azar: tyvm btw [18:34:29]
  1459. <JoshTriplett> don_armstrong: And a big thanks to you for tirelessly moderating this debate. [18:34:37]
  1460. <Azar> oh I am so sorry, I ruined it all [18:34:40]
  1461. <slef> yeah, thanks to don_armstrong! [18:34:50]
  1462. <Maulkin> dondelelcaro++ [18:34:58]
  1463. <peterS> don_armstrong++ [18:34:59]
  1464. <LightKnight> don_armstrong: kudos :) [18:35:00]
  1465. <slef> wonder if there'll be any ponies or apple pie in the closing statements? [18:35:20]
  1466. <h01ger> don_armstrong++ [18:35:22]
  1467. <slef> or apples and pony pie [18:35:28]
  1468. <Maulkin> IWANNAPONY [18:35:35]
  1469. <stockholm> i dont [18:35:42]
  1470. <sgran> ENOPONY [18:35:45]
  1471. <stockholm> too much dirt [18:35:49]
  1472. <KiBi> Maulkin: http://www.tinfc.org/tinfp.jpg [18:35:54]
  1473. <slef> Got a pon-y in my pock-et. [18:35:54]
  1474. <peterS> yeah am I the only one around here who has never particularly wanted a pony? [18:35:56]
  1475. <slef> Get my suitcase from the van. [18:36:00]
  1476. <stockholm> i want someone who cleans up for me instead [18:36:02]
  1477. <Clint> peterS: not even for sex? [18:36:03]
  1478. -!- slef [~mjr@g.towers.org.uk] has quit [Quit: [TalkSoup] Get it today: http://talksoup.aeruder.net] [18:36:05]
  1479. <helix> peterS: no. I am scared of them [18:36:07]
  1480. <peterS> not even for sex [18:36:09]
  1481. * Maulkin coughs [18:36:26]
  1482. <Maulkin> Who wants a pony for sex? [18:36:34]
  1483. <peterS> apparently Clint [18:36:38]
  1484. <stockholm> what gender? [18:36:49]
  1485. <Maulkin> Fear this... [18:36:50]
  1486. <WouterVerhelst> Clint wants anything for sex, I guess :P [18:36:52]
  1487. <sgran> he's been hanging around in bad Mexican bars again [18:36:53]
  1488. -!- avu [~jan@2001:6f8:13f7::1] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:36:58]
  1489. -!- slef [~mjr@g.towers.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [18:37:01]
  1490. -!- Lilandra [~lilandra@201-221-64-3.rev.greendottt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [18:37:06]
  1491. <Azar> good luck to all DPL wannabees. may your wishes come true [18:37:24]
  1492. -!- manfred_ [~manfred@lichtenstern.biz] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [18:37:37]
  1493. <slef> well, that wasn't the intended control [18:37:42]
  1494. <peterS> the 8 minutes are almost up, I can't wait to see what kind of coherency the candidates try to pull out of the last 3h [18:37:47]
  1495. * slef blushes [18:37:50]
  1496. <SteveMcIntyre> slef: doh! :-) [18:37:51]
  1497. <Clint> is everyone going to leave #debian-dpl-debate before the answers come? [18:37:52]
  1498. <Clint> that would be fantastic [18:37:55]
  1499. <AnthonyTowns> Azar: wow, that's quite the curse! [18:37:56]
  1500. <slef> damn GUI clients [18:38:00]
  1501. <Azar> AT, that came true from all my heart. so when will we know who is the new DPL? I have my Good Luck speech prepared [18:38:54]
  1502. <Clint> Azar: you will know when you dream tonight [18:39:11]
  1503. <slef> Azar: a bit before 12 April [18:39:19]
  1504. <slef> I think [18:39:28]
  1505. <Azar> ah, time to polish it [18:39:33]
  1506. <slef> Straw poll here after closing statements? [18:39:39]
  1507. <LightKnight> Around Easter night, IIRC. [18:39:40]
  1508. <Azar> Clint: who leaves early misses the cake [18:39:44]
  1509. <AnthonyTowns> Azar: ("When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.") [18:39:48]
  1510. <stockholm> bad prayers then [18:40:09]
  1511. <Clint> Azar: you've made me a cake? [18:40:10]
  1512. <Azar> well I think is fancy for every org to have a leader [18:40:10]
  1513. <eddyp> Easter is relative to religion ... [18:40:22]
  1514. <Azar> I don't bake, Clint [18:40:27]
  1515. <Clint> should you really be teasing me then? [18:40:41]
  1516. <slef> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/p.htm to look up other meanings of pony and why it's funny [18:40:46]
  1517. <Clint> there is nothing ever funny about ponies [18:41:02]
  1518. <Azar> try horsies then, Clint [18:41:14]
  1519. <helix> what about when midgets ride them? [18:41:19]
  1520. -!- WouterVerhelst is now known as Yoe [18:41:40]
  1521. <Clint> i'll take minjas over pony-riding midgets any day [18:41:45]
  1522. <helix> wtf is a minja [18:41:52]
  1523. -!- RaphaelHertzog is now known as buxy [18:42:26]
  1524. -!- AnthonyTowns is now known as aj [18:42:35]
  1525. <slef> midjit ninja, at a guess [18:42:38]
  1526. <Maulkin> I think we're done :)! [18:42:38]
  1527. -!- SteveMcIntyre is now known as Sledge [18:42:40]
  1528. <slef> so, who won and who lost in the debate? [18:42:48]
  1529. <Zugschlu5> slef: Gustavo lost [18:43:00]
  1530. <stockholm> yes, why didnt he show? [18:43:13]
  1531. -!- dondelelcaro is now known as don_inlab [18:43:18]
  1532. -!- don_armstrong is now known as dondelelcaro [18:43:28]
  1533. -!- SimonRichter is now known as GyrosGeier [18:43:28]
  1534. <slef> dunno... maybe best to ask on -vote [18:43:29]
  1535. <Yoe> stockholm: nobody knows, maybe he forgot? [18:43:29]
  1536. <Clint> helix: http://www.askaninja.com/episodes?page=3 [18:43:32]
  1537. <Yoe> anyway, off now [18:43:35]
  1538. <Sledge> thanks all, and nn [18:43:37]
  1539. * Sledge needs to crash now [18:43:38]
  1540. -!- AigarsMahinovs is now known as aigarius [18:43:40]
  1541. -!- huggie [~huggie@the.earth.li] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:43:44]
  1542. -!- aj [aj-irc@azure.humbug.org.au] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:43:47]
  1543. -!- Lunar^ [67728af6c1@poivron.org] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:44:07]
  1544. -!- aigarius [~aigarius@82.152.74.5] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Ex-Chat] [18:44:11]
  1545. -!- SamHocevar [~sam@dindon.zoy.org] has quit [Quit: must. run. to. the. toilets.] [18:44:29]
  1546. <slef> can someone point me at a log and I'll beautify it [18:44:30]
  1547. <Clint> beatify it as well [18:44:35]
  1548. <helix> on the irc [18:44:46]
  1549. <slef> Clint: can I just give it a POPE card? [18:44:47]
  1550. -!- dwatson [~david@planetwatson.plus.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Client terminated!] [18:44:52]
  1551. <Clint> slef: yes [18:44:55]
  1552. * GyrosGeier waits for Ganneff to kick everyone out [18:45:01]
  1553. -!- curt [~curt@adsl-70-228-83-174.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [18:45:09]
  1554. <helix> GyrosGeier: he left in a huff already [18:45:13]
  1555. <GyrosGeier> hmm [18:45:20]
  1556. -!- mhy [~mark@titus.mhy.org.uk] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:45:33]
  1557. <Azar> sigh is over.... [18:45:34]
  1558. <Clint> he will love no dpls this year [18:45:34]
  1559. <helix> he was all "this is stupid and I'm better than you!" [18:45:35]
  1560. <slef> helix: better than leaving in a Hoff, I guess [18:45:36]
  1561. <helix> haha [18:45:39]
  1562. <helix> debateable [18:45:42]
  1563. -!- svena [~sa@62.209.182.200] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [18:45:49]
  1564. <slef> helix: what, hollow him out with a teaspoon and use him as a canoe? [18:45:57]
  1565. -!- Mjollnir` [~penny@leibniz.catalyst.net.nz] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [I've had it up to here with all this noise, and all you f***ing boys, playing with your toys, it gets so loud that I just gotta leave the room] [18:45:57]
  1566. -!- sgran [steve@lobefin.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:46:01]
  1567. -!- reg [~reg@gcolpart.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:46:07]
  1568. <slef> I want Mjollnir` as a toy [18:46:14]
  1569. <GyrosGeier> we should let him know that there are still people in here, his sense for order will make him come back and clean up [18:46:17]
  1570. <Clint> oh my [18:46:19]
  1571. -!- fjp [~fjp@ip545593b6.speed.planet.nl] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] [18:46:31]
  1572. <helix> are those lyrics? [18:46:31]
  1573. -!- Kebianizao [~KVIrc@102.pool85-53-151.dynamic.orange.es] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Time makes no sense] [18:46:37]
  1574. <Clint> slef: would you settle for being her human steed? [18:46:38]
  1575. <helix> I am always disappointed when people use asterisks [18:46:39]
  1576. <slef> helix: melonfarmer. [18:46:55]
  1577. <peterS> slef: if you don't already have a log: http://p12n.org/tmp/debate07.txt http://p12n.org/tmp/debate07_discuss.txt [18:47:04]
  1578. <GyrosGeier> helix, you should start to program in F*CKF*CK [18:47:11]
  1579. <slef> peterS: thanks [18:47:16]
  1580. <Clint> helix: **** ***** ***** [18:47:32]
  1581. <Sledge> http://www.einval.com/tmp/debian-dpl-debate.log [18:47:35]
  1582. <Sledge> gah, I'm too slow :-( [18:47:40]
  1583. <helix> how did you learn my password? [18:47:40]
  1584. <Clint> astronut told us [18:47:46]
  1585. <peterS> whoever got the 403s please retry [18:47:48]
  1586. <Clint> web log stalker [18:47:59]
  1587. <slef> 00:47:35 ERARO 403: Forbidden. [18:48:05]
  1588. <helix> is that error in esperanto? [18:48:13]
  1589. <slef> helix: half [18:48:22]
  1590. <helix> fascinating [18:48:26]
  1591. -!- arneb [~arneb@p5484C957.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] [18:48:34]
  1592. <Clint> where's arnel? [18:48:42]
  1593. <Azar> will be there a big party when a new DPL is elected? [18:48:58]
  1594. <peterS> slef: sorry. retry again. [18:49:07]
  1595. <Clint> it may be a suicide party depending [18:49:08]
  1596. -!- cydork [~atul@adsl-ull-137-218.50-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [18:49:19]
  1597. <GyrosGeier> Azar, depends on whether we get a DPL who's willing to spend money [18:49:20]
  1598. <Azar> aw you are such a pesimist [18:49:22]
  1599. <Azar> GyrosGeier: who's money? [18:49:31]
  1600. <Azar> Debian refuses money [18:49:36]