DPL Debate 2008 - Audience

  1. * NeilMcGovern smiles [20:32:57]
  2. --- weasel is now known as Weasel [20:33:00]
  3. <Weasel> there, I got a fresh t-shirt [20:33:11]
  4. <ron-> .oO( I feel I should polish my shoes ) [20:33:17]
  5. <mhy> Weasel: idiot [20:33:22]
  6. --- avtobiff has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:33:22]
  7. <Lo-lan-do> ron-: /nick ron_? [20:33:29]
  8. --- paravoid has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:33:31]
  9. --- helmut has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:33:34]
  10. <Weasel> mhy: I have a drink. what do you have? [20:33:34]
  11. --- meebey has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:33:42]
  12. <ron-> Lo-lan-do: yes, sorry, still haven [20:33:44]
  13. <ron-> 't fixed that yet [20:33:50]
  14. <mhy> Weasel: I have some coke, but it appears to be missing vodka [20:33:51]
  15. --- fjp is now known as NOTA [20:33:51]
  16. --- Weasel is now known as weasel [20:33:58]
  17. <h01ger> *g* [20:34:00]
  18. <Lo-lan-do> We want Zeke! [20:34:04]
  19. <zobel> fjp: *g* [20:34:07]
  20. <slef> bah 1-0 [20:34:14]
  21. --- neuro has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:34:23]
  22. * weasel waits for neuro to /nick to Ryan_Murray [20:34:45]
  23. <h01ger> slef, you mean -discuss is more fun than -debate? [20:34:52]
  24. <Lo-lan-do> Who's that raxyx|away person? [20:35:15]
  25. <slef> h01ger: yep, if you don't want to spoil the football. [20:35:20]
  26. <weasel> at least don_armstrong had a drink too. [20:35:33]
  27. --- eptesicus has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:35:39]
  28. <avtobiff> drunk? [20:35:41]
  29. --- Myon has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:35:42]
  30. <RaphaelHertzog> Lo-lan-do: a random R<tab> completion [20:35:43]
  31. --- bma has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:35:45]
  32. --- NOTA is now known as fjp [20:36:01]
  33. <slef> drink-IRCing should be banned [20:36:06]
  34. <Lo-lan-do> RaphaelHertzog: Change your name, seriously... it's either bubulle or raxyx :-) [20:36:06]
  35. * h01ger thinks of the classic Werner football game in kiel on the marketplace... [20:36:21]
  36. <weasel> Kick Off! [20:36:31]
  37. <slef> RaphaelHertzog: have you given /ctcp remote to lucas and whoever it was [20:36:35]
  38. <zobel> h01ger: .... :) [20:36:44]
  39. <slef> (moritz?) [20:36:48]
  40. <slef> damn... I read the platforms less than 20mins ago [20:37:02]
  41. <RaphaelHertzog> slef: what's that? but not, Moritz is here "jmm" [20:37:18]
  42. --- seanius has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:37:22]
  43. <raxyx|away> oh, hi! i'm not a debian dev, just interested user, and thought i might listen in [20:37:26]
  44. <RaphaelHertzog> but I won't have the time to coordinate answers anyway :) [20:37:38]
  45. <slef> RaphaelHertzog: wondered if you were going to be a dpl team in the debate ;-) [20:37:48]
  46. <Lo-lan-do> raxyx|away: I didn't mean to insult you, I was just surprised at seeing you voiced [20:37:56]
  47. --- Womble2 has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:38:02]
  48. <paravoid> raxyx|away: no problem, your name was mentioned because you were given a voice by mistake on the debate channel [20:38:07]
  49. <weasel> .oO( <CMOT Dibbler>Hot sausages! Inna bun! Genuine pig! Two for a dollar, and I'm cutting me own throat!</> ) [20:38:13]
  50. <slef> and so the show begins... anyone for popcorn? [20:38:25]
  51. <raxyx|away> oh, np :-) [20:38:27]
  52. <RaphaelHertzog> slef: no, I asked but it's not possible to delegate answers officially and the time is too short to channel answers over me [20:38:30]
  53. <slef> weasel: so that's blood not ketchup? [20:38:36]
  54. <Lo-lan-do> Rule 1: There is no rule. [20:38:40]
  55. <weasel> slef: genuine pig! [20:38:46]
  56. <MarcBrockschmidt> weasel: Here! Here! I haven't had dinner because of this! [20:38:49]
  57. <Myon> is there a Rule 34 DPL? [20:38:56]
  58. <slef> weasel: from your own throat? [20:39:01]
  59. --- Tolimar has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:39:01]
  60. <Lo-lan-do> Genua pig! [20:39:03]
  61. <Lo-lan-do> Myon: DPL porn? *ugh* [20:39:13]
  62. <sam> Myon: DPL porn? not under my term! [20:39:15]
  63. <slef> so, what topics are people wanting? [20:39:23]
  64. <fjp> don_armstrong: s/question/round/ ? [20:39:30]
  65. <slef> sam: no, your term isn't transparent, so it needs to be beside it [20:39:38]
  66. <MarcBrockschmidt> slef: Obviously, there's interest in DPL porn [20:39:38]
  67. <sbex_> is smoking allowed? [20:39:51]
  68. * h01ger starts gimp [20:39:52]
  69. <slef> sbex_: if you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast [20:40:06]
  70. <weasel> sam: guess why you're not going to be re-elected [20:40:07]
  71. --- mattbnz has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:40:12]
  72. <Lo-lan-do> sam for GNAAPL! [20:40:27]
  73. * NeilMcGovern marks "QUESTION:" as hilight [20:40:50]
  74. <Lo-lan-do> Someone /nick QUESTION to make it easier for us :-) [20:41:23]
  75. <weasel> Lo-lan-do: should I SVSNICK you? :) [20:41:32]
  76. * weasel is always eager to help [20:41:37]
  77. * Lo-lan-do ponders starting another XChat [20:41:54]
  78. --- QUESTION has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:41:55]
  79. <weasel> bg [20:42:03]
  80. <stew> no floodbots this year? [20:42:08]
  81. <zobel> weasel: why boeses Ganneff? :) [20:42:17]
  82. <weasel> zobel: Wed 21:41:55 -!- QUESTION is Joerg Jaspert on #debian-dpl-discuss at server kinetic.oftc.net [20:42:25]
  83. <slef> stew: not unless it goes horribly wrong [20:42:37]
  84. <Ganneff> weasel: hey. service for the lusers! [20:42:38]
  85. <Myon> /quote svsnick question answer [20:42:43]
  86. <Ganneff> Lo-lan-do: you are too slow :) [20:42:57]
  87. <weasel> how long do they have to answer? [20:43:00]
  88. --- liw has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:43:10]
  89. <Lo-lan-do> Ganneff: It seems so. [20:43:16]
  90. --- broonie has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:43:18]
  91. <slef> weasel: erk, let me load the rules :) [20:43:43]
  92. <weasel> the answer apparently is "too long" [20:44:19]
  93. <NeilMcGovern> 3 mins [20:44:38]
  94. <Lo-lan-do> s/pinged/poked with a sharp stick/ [20:44:51]
  95. <weasel> what we need is somebody to do running commentary [20:44:52]
  96. <slef> or 10 lines [20:44:53]
  97. <weasel> on audio [20:44:54]
  98. <slef> ok, I've got stuff loaded after losing the file :) [20:45:02]
  99. <weasel> so I can listen to this like to any other show [20:45:03]
  100. <moray> "and they're hunched at their keyboards, I think they're typing now, wait I see a carriage return in there, ..." [20:45:17]
  101. --- chol\ has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:45:18]
  102. <stew> festival! [20:45:18]
  103. <Lo-lan-do> weasel: You do that for next year [20:45:22]
  104. <weasel> moray: exactly like that [20:45:30]
  105. <Lo-lan-do> moray++ [20:45:31]
  106. <ore> weasel: just /part now, read the logs tomorrow and save three hours of your life [20:45:43]
  107. <Lo-lan-do> We should do that during a BSP next time :-) [20:45:45]
  108. <weasel> "Was that a typo moray? I think it was. Let's see how he's going to correct that one!" [20:45:49]
  109. <slef> weasel: mail it to yesterday and I'll install the software :) [20:45:51]
  110. <weasel> ore: I'll probably do that [20:45:57]
  111. <weasel> whichever candidate fixes the most RC bugs during this debate gets an extra point [20:46:41]
  112. <weasel> GOD DAMN IT [20:47:41]
  113. <weasel> redynamizing [20:47:42]
  114. --- ScottK has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:47:44]
  115. <weasel> where's my bingo sheet! [20:47:45]
  116. <Lo-lan-do> buxy just headbutted elmo [20:47:47]
  117. --- jroes has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:47:54]
  118. <Womble2> weasel: redynamiting! [20:47:55]
  119. <Myon> weasel: "collab-maint" [20:48:01]
  120. <weasel> yea, put our ldap and keyring maint into collab maint [20:48:15]
  121. <weasel> I'm all for it [20:48:18]
  122. <weasel> next to the root passwords file [20:48:23]
  123. <weasel> then we can all go on vacation [20:48:27]
  124. <Lo-lan-do> debian-ldif.git [20:48:29]
  125. <sgran> what could possibly go wrong [20:48:37]
  126. * NeilMcGovern adds 'flame' and 'DAMnation' to the Debian Buzzword Bingo list [20:48:51]
  127. <Myon> weasel: stop harrassing the candidates [20:48:53]
  128. <ore> buxy wants to leverage our core competencies to redynamize our technology leadership [20:48:53]
  129. <Zugschlu5> ore: BINGO [20:49:10]
  130. <Lo-lan-do> ore: synergistically [20:49:19]
  131. <NeilMcGovern> error: cannot parse from file "manager.grm: No such file or directory" [20:49:20]
  132. <NeilMcGovern> dammit [20:49:26]
  133. <slef> Isn't it house? [20:49:27]
  134. <NeilMcGovern> We have to define embedded providers for deploying the design of Net-surfing systems. [20:49:47]
  135. <NeilMcGovern> We should manage net politicies. [20:49:53]
  136. --- gigio has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:49:54]
  137. <NeilMcGovern> We either will integrate the design of Data-entry politicies, or could better outclass virtual applications for reimplementing fine-grained servers. [20:49:55]
  138. --- schue has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:50:16]
  139. --- ifvoid has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:50:24]
  140. <ore> "sounds good! to make Debian sexy, vote buxy!" [20:50:30]
  141. <Zugschlu5> "Debian Sexy" was sam's object [20:50:48]
  142. <schue> "vote buxy for sexy!" [20:50:52]
  143. <sgran> To make Debian a sexy manager, vote Maulkin [20:50:56]
  144. <MarcBrockschmidt> NeilMcGovern: You have obviously forgotten about refactoring the usability component to get the TCO down [20:50:56]
  145. <jroes> is that supposed to rhyme? [20:50:58]
  146. <schue> "SEXY BUXY!" [20:51:05]
  147. <aj> wouldn't buxy and "suxy" rhyme better? [20:51:15]
  148. <NeilMcGovern> MarcBrockschmidt: patches to the polygen grammar file accepted. [20:51:16]
  149. <liw> I thought I had made it clear yars ago that DEBIAN NO LONGER HAS SEX [20:51:17]
  150. <schue> "VOTE SUXY!" [20:51:23]
  151. * GyrosGeier proposes a drinking game [20:51:26]
  152. <weasel> liw: not your kind of sex [20:51:29]
  153. <QUESTION> liw: you failed [20:51:34]
  154. <Lo-lan-do> aj: I think the u in buxy is the French u [20:51:35]
  155. <ifvoid> QUESTION: for steve: when you were 2nd in command last year, what are the things you had wanted to accompish but weren't able to, and do yuou think that will be different if you're elected DPL proper? [20:51:43]
  156. <h01ger> GyrosGeier, you're late to this party.. [20:51:43]
  157. --- dkg has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:51:46]
  158. <broonie> A freedom u! [20:51:46]
  159. <GyrosGeier> everyone chooses a candidate [20:51:52]
  160. <seanius> QUESTION: as dpl, what steps (if any) would you take to defuse the current dpkg impasse, and others like them? [20:52:02]
  161. <slef> ifvoid: ack [20:52:04]
  162. <GyrosGeier> and every time that candidate says "team" they have to drink [20:52:06]
  163. <slef> seanius: ack [20:52:14]
  164. <aj> Lo-lan-do: that doesn't help you rhyme with sexy though does it? [20:52:14]
  165. <Lo-lan-do> So you'd transliterate it as büxy [20:52:18]
  166. <Lo-lan-do> I don't see how "Lo-lan-do" could rhyme with "sexy", no. [20:52:50]
  167. --- vortex has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:52:54]
  168. <NeilMcGovern> lo-lan-do, no-can-do ? [20:53:28]
  169. <aj> Lo-lan-do: if you work it into abba's Fernando you might come close? [20:53:30]
  170. <sbex_> why is there only 2 people and a young boy who dream about becoming a DPL? [20:53:41]
  171. <Lo-lan-do> (At least phonetically, *hint* to ladies) [20:53:47]
  172. --- sheskar has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [20:53:51]
  173. <slef> sbex_: you cannot be serious [20:53:54]
  174. <moray> sbex_: two people and sledge? [20:54:01]
  175. * h01ger wonders how many people where in the irc debate channels in the last years [20:54:07]
  176. <Lo-lan-do> aj: Now there's an idea... [20:54:08]
  177. <weasel> you forgot our venerable NOTA [20:54:12]
  178. * GyrosGeier doesn't like that NOTA guy [20:54:29]
  179. <Ganneff> nota - the dpl for everyone! [20:54:30]
  180. <Lo-lan-do> Whose good hands? [20:54:32]
  181. <ore> h01ger: more than this year I think [20:54:35]
  182. <GyrosGeier> he's more popular than I am [20:54:36]
  183. <liw> h01ger, I've been skipping them the past couple of years, and I think I'm going to skip the rest of this year's, too [20:54:38]
  184. <weasel> liw: you're so going to miss out! [20:54:50]
  185. <sgran> I resent that remark [20:55:04]
  186. <aj> liw: you're willing to miss your chance to be rhymed with sexy? [20:55:16]
  187. --- psn_ has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [20:55:20]
  188. <NeilMcGovern> sgran: I resemble that remark. [20:55:21]
  189. <moray> weasel: you mean some answer won't be "I'll look at it and try to work towards a solution with an appropriate team"? [20:55:32]
  190. * fjp wonders where the debian-women contingent is; they were so present during these things [20:55:32]
  191. <Curan> "team" is a German acronym for "toll ein anderer machts" (wounderfull, another guy is doing it") ;) [20:55:46]
  192. <schue> sbex_: wisdom is slowly setting in. [20:56:02]
  193. <sam> QUESTION: some of my actions as DPL did not match my initial enthusiasm, are there specific areas where you would like to be more aggressive than I have been? [20:56:11]
  194. <RaphaelHertzog> seanius: not this question ... argh :-) [20:56:14]
  195. <Tolimar> fjp: Fixing RC bugs I hope ;) [20:56:28]
  196. <liw> aj, I don't mind not rhyming with sexy, thanks [20:56:35]
  197. <NeilMcGovern> heh [20:56:35]
  198. <Zugschlu5> Curan: together, everyboy achives more [20:56:59]
  199. <Lo-lan-do> Enlarge your release team! [20:56:59]
  200. <aj> liw: maybe you could rhyme with mew, and be the one all the kittens are talking about [20:57:02]
  201. * SteveMcIntyre groans [20:57:18]
  202. * NeilMcGovern giggles [20:57:24]
  203. <Womble2> Zugschlu5: Everybody archives more? Like with tar? [20:57:25]
  204. <GyrosGeier> more cat content, please [20:57:31]
  205. <Zugschlu5> Womble2: T) E) A) M) [20:57:37]
  206. --- jroes has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [20:57:41]
  207. <Womble2> I CAN HAZ BE DPL NOW KTHXBYE [20:57:43]
  208. * Zugschlu5 sends murphy to GyrosGeier [20:57:44]
  209. <Womble2> (6 months later) INVISIBLE DPL [20:58:15]
  210. <moray> Womble2: aj didn't disappear [20:58:28]
  211. <Lo-lan-do> Womble2++ [20:58:37]
  212. <schue> I think Steve drinks beer the best. [20:58:45]
  213. <schue> He's *good*. [20:58:51]
  214. <Zugschlu5> moray: he better had [20:58:54]
  215. <slef> argh line-wrapping [20:59:04]
  216. <NeilMcGovern> slef: [20:59:17]
  217. <NeilMcGovern> I [20:59:19]
  218. <ore> yeah, hurts my eyes [20:59:20]
  219. <NeilMcGovern> don't [20:59:22]
  220. <NeilMcGovern> see [20:59:23]
  221. <NeilMcGovern> any. [20:59:24]
  222. <slef> it's Yahoo [20:59:32]
  223. <moray> at least he [20:59:36]
  224. <moray> didn't have a [20:59:37]
  225. <moray> really thin [20:59:39]
  226. <moray> terminal [20:59:40]
  227. * NeilMcGovern [20:59:44]
  228. <schue> a [20:59:45]
  229. <Zugschlu5> YES! That's a clear question. I'll probably base my vote on this answer [20:59:45]
  230. <schue> g [20:59:46]
  231. <NeilMcGovern> grins [20:59:46]
  232. <schue> r [20:59:47]
  233. <schue> e [20:59:47]
  234. <schue> e [20:59:48]
  235. <schue> d [20:59:48]
  236. <psn_> stop it, all of you [20:59:56]
  237. * Curan needs a bigger monitor at this scroll speed [20:59:57]
  238. * aj wonders what sam's answer to that question is [21:00:00]
  239. <GyrosGeier> or a smaller font [21:00:03]
  240. * paravoid is annoyed too [21:00:07]
  241. <sbex_> is that the audience questions already? [21:00:13]
  242. <Myon> sbex_: no [21:00:21]
  243. <ore> there's a keyring situation? no kidding [21:00:25]
  244. <Lo-lan-do> Or a Perl script to squash stuff emitted by the same nick [21:00:25]
  245. <paravoid> could you do all the fun on -devel and keep this channel clear for the actual debate discussion, please? [21:00:35]
  246. <Curan> GyrosGeier: that would mean I'm not visually impaired as any computer freak ;) [21:00:38]
  247. <schue> oooh. i desparately need to update my key. [21:00:41]
  248. <sam> aj: how about "cry"? [21:00:44]
  249. <Womble2> /join #debian-dpl-heckling [21:01:06]
  250. <moray> paravoid: I think the idea is to keep devel for development [21:01:06]
  251. <GyrosGeier> damn [21:01:08]
  252. <Zugschlu5> QUESTION: What will you do if a core team refuses to communicate with you as the DPL? [21:01:25]
  253. <slef> Womble2: isn't that here? Or are you looking for #debian-dpl-satire? [21:01:28]
  254. <GyrosGeier> three identical answers [21:01:29]
  255. <schue> paravoid: this *is* the DPL discussion. [21:01:36]
  256. <NeilMcGovern> Oi! Stop it you lot! I keep getting channel created notices :P [21:01:44]
  257. <schue> Zugschlu5: HA [21:01:52]
  258. <moray> Neil [21:01:55]
  259. <Womble2> slef: Indeed [21:02:01]
  260. <Zugschlu5> schue: that has happened to sam [21:02:03]
  261. <GyrosGeier> erm [21:02:09]
  262. --- wieselTM has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:02:10]
  263. <fjp> Does that include kincking people? [21:02:20]
  264. <schue> Zugschlu5: oh man... i host debian equipment. you don't have to tell me about the mysteries of debian internals. [21:02:28]
  265. <fjp> kicking even [21:02:30]
  266. <slef> fjp: kincky [21:02:31]
  267. <Zugschlu5> at least I never saw an answer from elmo to sam's rather clearly formulated request [21:02:36]
  268. <Curan> QUESTION: has the question about dpkg slipped through? if so assume it restated: <seanius> QUESTION: as dpl, what steps (if any) would you take to defuse the current dpkg impasse, and others like them? [21:02:47]
  269. <slef> Zugschlu5: ack [21:03:01]
  270. <slef> Curan: ack [21:03:03]
  271. --- wurmt has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:03:06]
  272. <NeilMcGovern> Curan: it's been noted. [21:03:06]
  273. <slef> Curan: don says it's in the queue [21:03:14]
  274. --- avu has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:03:26]
  275. * mjj29 thinks steve's reply is a bit weak [21:03:26]
  276. <slef> we're still on the pre-submissions [21:03:32]
  277. <mjj29> given the specificity of the question [21:03:39]
  278. --- liw has left #debian-dpl-discuss [i++; /* TODO: make this pre-increment - more efficient */] [21:03:52]
  279. * fjp acks mjj29 [21:03:53]
  280. <schue> mjj29: "I'm gonna kick ass and take names!" [21:03:56]
  281. <sbex_> "I'll do whatever is needed" is exactly what would be interesting to know? [21:04:00]
  282. <schue> mjj29: I mean, ultimately, what's he going to do? [21:04:05]
  283. <broonie> I think it marks him out as an excellent politician! [21:04:06]
  284. <mjj29> sbex_: indeed [21:04:11]
  285. <Curan> NielMcGovern, slef: thx [21:04:24]
  286. <SteveMcIntyre> broonie: ouch... :-( [21:04:27]
  287. <ifvoid> sbex_: yeah, that a rather generic answer [21:04:28]
  288. <mjj29> schue: well, the DPL clearly has authority to add and/or replace keyringmaint [21:04:28]
  289. <Lo-lan-do> Especially since every DPL for years has already done the first part. [21:04:31]
  290. <schue> mjj29: "I'll single them out in press interviews and make fun of them." [21:04:31]
  291. <broonie> SteveMcIntyre: :P [21:04:34]
  292. <slef> Curan: thank don at the end [21:04:38]
  293. <SteveMcIntyre> :-) [21:04:40]
  294. <moray> SteveMcIntyre: well, that is our government's favourite thing "we'll have a review!" ;) [21:04:46]
  295. <Curan> slef: that was out of question ;) [21:05:20]
  296. <Lo-lan-do> moray: A committee is even better. [21:05:21]
  297. <Lo-lan-do> Or a commission, or in Debian-speak a team. [21:05:34]
  298. <wieselTM> moray: a review is not enough [21:05:37]
  299. <wieselTM> moray: we want a thorough review! [21:05:42]
  300. <slef> wieselTM: the world is not enough. [21:05:47]
  301. --- rey_ has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:06:16]
  302. <aj> eh, "the LDAP database maintainer" is all of DSA [21:06:16]
  303. <wieselTM> well [21:06:26]
  304. <wieselTM> current defined workflow is that elmo is the only one to add gid 800 accounts. [21:06:38]
  305. <wieselTM> and joerg has shown no inclination to have that changed [21:06:47]
  306. <sbex_> i think liw left cause he saw there is only 1 candidate to vote :-p [21:06:47]
  307. <moray> NOTA? [21:06:54]
  308. --- ndim has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [21:06:57]
  309. <NeilMcGovern> We want a full review on how to hold inquires! [21:06:58]
  310. <NeilMcGovern> s/es/ies/ [21:07:09]
  311. <fjp> NOTA left even earlier... [21:07:11]
  312. <Ganneff> wieselTM: wrong. but i want a way for dam to be independent of others for the work dam does [21:07:15]
  313. <slef> We want to use our bad decision-making process to fix our bad decision-making process... [21:07:23]
  314. <Zugschlu5> elmo is trying desperately to keep the power for himself, everything he has allowed in the last few years is only decoy [21:07:27]
  315. <seanius> NeilMcGovern: submit requests for said review in triplicate to the bureau downstairs [21:07:32]
  316. <moray> NeilMcGovern: in Scotland there's now one party holding a National Conversation while the others refuse to take part and are setting up a Commission to review the issues... [21:07:38]
  317. --- Tincho has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:07:39]
  318. * mjj29 is with Raphael on this [21:08:05]
  319. <mjj29> all important posts should be a team [21:08:14]
  320. <seanius> oh, there it is :) [21:08:15]
  321. <mjj29> debian needs a bus number of more than 1 [21:08:25]
  322. <NeilMcGovern> How about the subcommittee to facilitate the rules for the creation of subcomittees? [21:08:30]
  323. <sgran> has anyone picked mjj29 as their drinking game candidate? [21:08:39]
  324. <mjj29> hah [21:08:44]
  325. * Lo-lan-do sends NeilMcGovern to Dilbertland [21:08:46]
  326. <NeilMcGovern> moray: bus number is > 1. [21:08:53]
  327. <Zugschlu5> NeilMcGovern: is your last name actually short for Government? *ducks* [21:08:57]
  328. <NeilMcGovern> err... mjj29 [21:08:58]
  329. <aj> oh, isn't there a dpl debate drinking game? [21:09:08]
  330. * NeilMcGovern *is* running for local government next month.... :) [21:09:11]
  331. <moray> NeilMcGovern: I can /nick mma29 if you like [21:09:13]
  332. <ifvoid> hmm, yeah, an official Debian Dilbart [21:09:15]
  333. <aj> shots for team, discuss with, etc? [21:09:18]
  334. <ifvoid> *ert [21:09:19]
  335. <Zugschlu5> NeilMcGovern: you have my vote [21:09:21]
  336. --- tale has quit [Quit: leaving] [21:09:22]
  337. <slef> Zugschlu5: vote early, vote often [21:09:30]
  338. <NeilMcGovern> So you lot: move to Cambridge, register to vote, and vote for your favourite Lib Dem candidate! [21:09:36]
  339. <aj> haha [21:09:57]
  340. <NeilMcGovern> And if they're not on the ballot paper, I've replaced them. So vote for me instead. [21:10:01]
  341. <mjj29> NeilMcGovern: think of it as a 'quite busy with RL work all of a sudden' number if you prefer [21:10:06]
  342. <aj> lucky first person to answer [21:10:07]
  343. <fjp> NeilMcGovern: Ah, I always suspected you were marginal [21:10:12]
  344. <slef> NeilMcGovern: nah, surely the mighty cooperative party will beat you ;-) [21:10:36]
  345. --- kaol has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:10:39]
  346. <psn_> NeilMcGovern: you are doing what? really? [21:11:01]
  347. <NeilMcGovern> slef: this ward is marginal enough. (18 votes last time...) [21:11:02]
  348. <NeilMcGovern> psn_: yes, really :) [21:11:16]
  349. <aj> oh, mediation deserves a shot too [21:11:17]
  350. <psn_> wow [21:11:20]
  351. <psn_> good luck [21:11:22]
  352. <slef> (for those unfamiliar with party.coop, they stand as Labour/Cooperative candidates) [21:11:44]
  353. <GyrosGeier> aj, "mediation" requires sitting down with a beer [21:11:51]
  354. <slef> aj: damn, the shot glass is on another flor [21:11:55]
  355. <Lo-lan-do> I think buxy just lost one vote [21:11:58]
  356. <moray> is it mediation if you think one side is in the wrong? [21:12:09]
  357. <slef> Lo-lan-do: whose? [21:12:13]
  358. <sgran> iwj's? [21:12:15]
  359. <Lo-lan-do> yup [21:12:21]
  360. <slef> moray: not usually IMO [21:12:30]
  361. <Ganneff> Lo-lan-do: you think he ever had that? [21:12:40]
  362. <Zugschlu5> QUESTION for Raphael: Will uncooperative core teams get as much time to resolve their stuff as Guillem got for dpkg? [21:12:44]
  363. <seanius> hehe [21:12:55]
  364. <wieselTM> oh yes. [21:12:57]
  365. <slef> Zugschlu5: ack [21:13:14]
  366. <meebey> hehe good question [21:13:18]
  367. <aj> Zugschlu5: six months sounds entirely reasonable, if you're not adding the word "additional"... [21:13:22]
  368. <fjp> At least so that the change is too late for the release [21:13:23]
  369. <Zugschlu5> Ubuntu will dance of joy for getting ahead of Debian so much for a Debian core package [21:14:12]
  370. <ifvoid> QUESTION: for all: how do you see the position of the techctte? Would you consider changing the way the member are appointed (e.g., by a general election, DPL appointing new members, etc)? [21:14:18]
  371. <wieselTM> who cares about ubuntu [21:14:21]
  372. <slef> ifvoid: ack [21:14:30]
  373. <aj> hrm [21:14:45]
  374. <Zugschlu5> wieselTM: a lot of people do, including many users and about 100 % of the Press. Debian is in the process of becomin an Ubuntu derivative from the general public's point of view [21:14:54]
  375. <aj> i really wish i'd thought of doing shots earlier,and that it wasn't 7am... [21:15:00]
  376. <slef> aj: getting them in in advance, you mean? [21:15:23]
  377. <ifvoid> Zugschlu5: does it matter? [21:15:30]
  378. <wieselTM> .oO( What Do You Care What Other People Think? ) [21:15:44]
  379. <broonie> ifvoid: It reduces sales, eating into our profit margins. [21:15:50]
  380. <Zugschlu5> ifvoid: if one wants to work with _Debian_ for customers, yes, it does matter a lot [21:15:53]
  381. <aj> slef: having the scoresheet in advance, grabbing a glass and bottle is easy [21:15:55]
  382. <slef> aj: then, if they didn't mention enough, revoking a few [21:15:56]
  383. <ifvoid> Zugschlu5: ah ok [21:16:23]
  384. <Zugschlu5> it is hard enough to defend Debian installation on customers boxes against SLES, RHEL and CentOS because "these are supported" [21:16:23]
  385. <wieselTM> SteveMcIntyre: /script load splitlong [21:16:29]
  386. <wieselTM> SteveMcIntyre: that was cut off [21:16:31]
  387. <wieselTM> SteveMcIntyre: after "decision. The" [21:16:38]
  388. <SteveMcIntyre> wieselTM: thx [21:16:42]
  389. <ifvoid> Zugschlu5: well, that would make a good question, I guess [21:16:54]
  390. <Zugschlu5> ifvoid: do you want to word it yourself? [21:17:12]
  391. <Curan> only very few news pages point out, that Ubuntu is derieved from Debian, so many haven't even heard that there is Debian, which I think is a bad thing because of the idea behind Debian [21:17:28]
  392. <ifvoid> I was thinking, but I don;t know how to phrase it best [21:17:37]
  393. <fjp> Why does nobody just say that triggers should have been merged by now? [21:17:48]
  394. <Zugschlu5> neither do I [21:17:50]
  395. <wieselTM> fjp: triggers should have been merged by November [21:18:08]
  396. <Lo-lan-do> We should do a massive "Debian: what makes Ubuntu good" PR campaign [21:18:12]
  397. <sgran> triggers should have been merged by now [21:18:13]
  398. <MarcBrockschmidt> fjp: Because the question wasn't "was Ian right?" [21:18:13]
  399. <Zugschlu5> wieselTM: which year? [21:18:19]
  400. * SteveMcIntyre nods MarcBrockschmidt [21:18:24]
  401. <wieselTM> Zugschlu5: pick one. [21:18:24]
  402. <fjp> MarcBrockschmidt: Isn't that a given? [21:18:27]
  403. <Ganneff> fjp: wait - admitting that the current dpkg team should be kicked? how can you think that? tsssssssss [21:18:30]
  404. <Tolimar> QUESTION to all: To have any plans / ideas on how to prevent such "disasters" as seen recently happening with dpkg? [21:18:49]
  405. <slef> Lo-lan-do: that reads two ways, you know? [21:19:21]
  406. <ifvoid> I don't understand the question [21:19:29]
  407. <Lo-lan-do> slef: ? [21:19:33]
  408. <slef> Lo-lan-do: but I know what you mean. [21:19:37]
  409. <ifvoid> which actions are we talking about? [21:19:41]
  410. <aj> Lo-lan-do: "Debian asks: What makes Ubuntu good? We've got no idea. Anyone? Bueller?" [21:19:55]
  411. <slef> aj++ [21:20:06]
  412. <wieselTM> fanboys? [21:20:07]
  413. <Lo-lan-do> Er... did I type a question mark? [21:20:10]
  414. <sgran> buckets of cash [21:20:14]
  415. <ore> "Debian, the Special Ingredient that makes Ubuntu so good" [21:20:17]
  416. <Hoaxter> Tolimar: Honestly do you think such disagreements with overreactions *can* be prevent in anyway? [21:20:23]
  417. <slef> Lo-lan-do: no, but it would be added onto any marketing materials :) [21:20:27]
  418. <Zugschlu5> ore: isn't that launchpad and Canonical Inc? [21:20:31]
  419. <seanius> the secret sauce [21:20:31]
  420. <aj> seanius: the secret source, surely [21:20:41]
  421. <sgran> stop calling him shirley [21:20:55]
  422. <slef> aj: the key-crypt source? [21:20:59]
  423. <Tolimar> Hoaxter: 22:16:20 <+SteveMcIntyre> [..] the first thing to do is to try and avoid this kind of acrimonious situation in the first place. [21:21:06]
  424. <ore> Zugschlu5: sorry I'm not allowed to answer that question, for reasons of military security [21:21:12]
  425. <slef> Tolimar: let's do the time warp again [21:21:20]
  426. * Zugschlu5 takes just a jump to the left [21:21:28]
  427. <Tolimar> Hoaxter: I was going to ask him "How?" but thought it might be nice to ask the questions to all others, too. [21:21:30]
  428. <ifvoid> Zugschlu5: maybe something like: It seems Debian is falling behind other biug distros when it comes to acceptance in corporate environments, where people seem to prefer Ubuntu, RH, etc over Debian. Do you view this as a problem, and if so, do you have ideas on how to change it? [21:21:44]
  429. <aj> don_armstrong: (might be useful to point out "sam" is "Sam Hocevar, current DPL") [21:21:56]
  430. <Lo-lan-do> Not-really-a-QUESTION: Will you bludgeon the Debian-JP team into hosting a Debconf at last? [21:21:57]
  431. <sgran> we've always been 'behind' commercail linuxes in corporate environments [21:22:09]
  432. <slef> aj: ack [21:22:12]
  433. <slef> Lo-lan-do: ack [21:22:15]
  434. <Zugschlu5> ifvoid: very nice. Please have that question included. [21:22:15]
  435. <GyrosGeier> Lo-lan-do, they don't need bludgeoning [21:22:29]
  436. <Lo-lan-do> slef: Keep that one for the free-for-all, it's not really serious [21:22:29]
  437. <ifvoid> QUESTION: It seems Debian is falling behind other large distros when it comes to acceptance in corporate environments, where people seem to prefer Ubuntu, RH, etc over Debian. Do you view this as a problem, and if so, do you have ideas on how to change it? [21:22:38]
  438. <Zugschlu5> thanks [21:22:43]
  439. <Ganneff> Lo-lan-do: will you pay for that, .jp is expensive. :) [21:22:48]
  440. <slef> ifvoid: moray already took it [21:22:49]
  441. <ifvoid> great [21:22:53]
  442. <GyrosGeier> Lo-lan-do, actually, they want to do it, but have no idea where to raise the money [21:22:54]
  443. <Curan> ifvoid: ack [21:23:09]
  444. * broonie notes that many of the obstacles require someone to spend money. [21:23:20]
  445. <Lo-lan-do> GyrosGeier: Oh. Shame. [21:23:24]
  446. <don_armstrong> SteveMcIntyre: go ahead [21:23:29]
  447. <don_armstrong> heh. [21:23:32]
  448. <slef> broonie: shall we ask them if they're going to spend any money? ;-) [21:23:48]
  449. <moray> broonie: yes, towing Japan closer and changing the exchange rate might take a bit of work [21:23:51]
  450. <fjp> QUESTION: will adding people ever also be followed by removing no longer active or problematic people? [21:23:52]
  451. <slef> fjp: ack [21:24:05]
  452. <seanius> fjp++ [21:24:06]
  453. <broonie> moray: I was thinking of the corporate thing, but yes it applies to that too... [21:24:15]
  454. <Ganneff> fjp: that has been done in the past sometimes (ftp* lost some) [21:24:18]
  455. <Zugschlu5> QUESTION: two periods ago, we tried to spend Debian funds on manpower, which we finally didn't do. Debian has considerable amounts of funds in the bank - do you have any plans to make use of these funds? [21:24:21]
  456. <broonie> People have even resigned from teams of their own accord in the past! [21:24:41]
  457. <aj> Ganneff, fjp: inactive and problematic are vastly different cases [21:24:45]
  458. <slef> Zugschlu5: ack [21:24:52]
  459. <Lo-lan-do> Zugschlu5: Send them to .jp! [21:24:55]
  460. --- tomtomnana has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:25:02]
  461. <Lo-lan-do> Hm, actually, the JPY is a lot cheaper than it ised to be. [21:25:09]
  462. <fjp> aj: ack, but both do need to be addressed [21:25:09]
  463. <ore> Zugschlu5: do you follow SPI at all? some of that money is being used, always have [21:25:12]
  464. <Ganneff> aj: well. yes. i just meant that inactive people got removed. [21:25:12]
  465. <ifvoid> QUESTION: (for all) What is your view on the new DM system? Do feel Debian Maintainers should be encouraged to become full Debian developers over time? [21:25:15]
  466. <Ganneff> (on their wish) [21:25:19]
  467. <moray> anyway, I thought Thailand was the mythical DebConf destination? [21:25:20]
  468. <Lo-lan-do> 150 JPY/EUR now, used to be 120 two years ago [21:25:34]
  469. <SteveMcIntyre> gah, /me needs a beer [21:25:40]
  470. <Lo-lan-do> moray: Only for madduck [21:25:47]
  471. * wieselTM wnats a debconf in the caribbean [21:25:49]
  472. --- avu has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [21:25:51]
  473. <aj> how much does debian have atm anyway? [21:25:55]
  474. * Ganneff wants an everlasting debconf [21:25:59]
  475. <ifvoid> slef: feel free to opick the best question, btw. I'm just typing everything right away as I think them up [21:26:00]
  476. <slef> ifvoid: ack [21:26:02]
  477. <aj> eeepcs and n810s for everyone! [21:26:10]
  478. <broonie> SteveMcIntyre: Hey, having candidates play the drinking game would make the debate so much more fun! [21:26:12]
  479. <slef> ifvoid: I'll let don_armstrong have that fun :) [21:26:17]
  480. <sbex_> nice idea regarding constant "SoC" efforts [21:26:21]
  481. <Ganneff> aj: cant we have stuff with real monitors? [21:26:24]
  482. <Ganneff> the eeepc is insanely small [21:26:31]
  483. <SteveMcIntyre> broonie: zigactly! hic! [21:26:33]
  484. <Lo-lan-do> aj: And freerunners! [21:26:34]
  485. <GyrosGeier> Ganneff, we tried to pull that off in the church in EDI, but lacked funding [21:26:34]
  486. <jcristau> 30" monitors for everyone! [21:26:37]
  487. <aj> Ganneff: only if the monitor runs debian itself [21:26:40]
  488. <Zugschlu5> aj: iMac? [21:26:48]
  489. <aj> ooo, ganneff using an eeepc would be a great photograph [21:26:54]
  490. <Myon> yay for plans beyond "continueing poking core teams" [21:26:54]
  491. <Ganneff> aj: that shouldnt be THAT hard. [21:26:57]
  492. <MarcBrockschmidt> Ganneff: Your "laptop" isn't really the definition of mobile computing, you know? [21:26:59]
  493. <slef> aj: who's the debian treasurer anyway and will SPI's treasurer report next month? [21:27:00]
  494. <Ganneff> aj: you should have been at cebit then, i did play with one there. [21:27:06]
  495. <moray> for Ganneff, a minicomputer is portable [21:27:21]
  496. <Ganneff> i dont like it. [21:27:21]
  497. <MarcBrockschmidt> slef: killer was doing the job, but I haven't seen a report in the past few months [21:27:22]
  498. <aj> slef: kalle's debian auditor still ttbomk, we don't have a treasurer otherwise [21:27:23]
  499. <sgran> for Ganneff, and s390 is portable [21:27:35]
  500. <Ganneff> MarcBrockschmidt: hey. my laptop is SMALL!!!!!!!!!!!! [21:27:36]
  501. <MarcBrockschmidt> Ganneff: You would have bought a 21" version, right? [21:27:51]
  502. <Ganneff> only nearly unusable 17", thats nothing [21:27:52]
  503. <Ganneff> MarcBrockschmidt: if it would have had the rest of the technical data right, yes. [21:28:07]
  504. <moray> they should make laptops with wheels [21:28:12]
  505. <Ganneff> (like a battery life of > 2 hours, not 2 minutes) [21:28:15]
  506. <Womble2> There should be a Debian Enterprise Edition. $2000 a seat, which pays for Ganneff to fly out and install it personally. [21:28:22]
  507. <slef> sam: can you get us "bits from the debian auditor" before you go? :) [21:28:30]
  508. <Myon> RaphaelHertzog: you don't seriously think the public appearance of Debian (sexyness) isn't a DPL job? [21:28:30]
  509. <Zugschlu5> laptop trolleys, my personal nightmare [21:28:35]
  510. <Zugschlu5> how about a kaypro on wheels [21:28:39]
  511. <wieselTM> Womble2: Ganneff only flies 1st class [21:28:42]
  512. <aj> Myon: can you rephrase without the multiple negatives? [21:28:47]
  513. <slef> Zugschlu5: off your trolley... getting trollied [21:28:52]
  514. <moray> Myon: are you saying raphael isn't sexy? [21:28:54]
  515. <slef> yay, break [21:29:03]
  516. <broonie> wieselTM: This is the *enterprise* edition, we could afford it! [21:29:05]
  517. --- rnea has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:29:08]
  518. <Ganneff> wieselTM: naaah. business class for LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG flights, wooden class for short ( < 2 hours) [21:29:13]
  519. <moray> (I don't actually remember what he looks like ;) [21:29:16]
  520. <Myon> moray: I don't want to think about that [21:29:16]
  521. <sam> slef: yep, there will be one [21:29:19]
  522. <sbex_> haha [21:29:25]
  523. * GyrosGeier imagines Ganneff with a Starfleet uniform [21:29:30]
  524. --- rnea has quit [] [21:29:35]
  525. <Ganneff> hm. [21:29:35]
  526. <ifvoid> hehe [21:29:36]
  527. <Myon> VOTE HE </ad> [21:29:39]
  528. <Zugschlu5> MarcBrockschmidt: how about a Canonical ad? [21:29:39]
  529. <Ganneff> beam me up, scotty [21:29:40]
  530. --- ralph1 has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:29:52]
  531. --- xylome has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:30:21]
  532. <zobel> MarcBrockschmidt: infoserv could do so... :) [21:30:26]
  533. <sgran> This DPL debate wul dhave been brought to you by Ubuntu, but as usual, the amount of sponsorship they paid was tiny [21:30:42]
  534. <slef> I won't be doing the ads - I'm not +v - probably wise ;-) [21:30:46]
  535. <RaphaelHertzog> Myon: heh, I meant that for example "giving a new look to the website" is not a job for the DPL, although he can help things going forward by communication and stuff [21:30:52]
  536. <wieselTM> slef: that could be changed [21:30:58]
  537. <ifvoid> don_armstrong: is there a questions about cats already? [21:30:58]
  538. <slef> http://www.tech.coop/ for Vancouverarians [21:31:10]
  539. <wieselTM> *must resist* [21:31:11]
  540. <Zugschlu5> vancouver, bad word [21:31:27]
  541. <don_armstrong> ifvoid: i can has cats? [21:31:34]
  542. --- jaldhar has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:31:37]
  543. <Myon> polygen's dplquestion.grm needs work [21:31:37]
  544. <MarcBrockschmidt> Zugschlu5: Why? It finally got rid of m68k, that's a *good* thing [21:31:44]
  545. * wieselTM tries to resist from posting "this debate brought to you by OFTC, the Open and Free Technology Community" every 4 minutes [21:31:44]
  546. <slef> wieselTM: can't you just wall all users? [21:31:47]
  547. <ifvoid> don_armstrong: only the DPL can has catz! [21:31:58]
  548. <Zugschlu5> MarcBrockschmidt: I disagree on that count [21:31:59]
  549. <Ganneff> wieselTM: dont post it in here, do it with wallops [21:32:02]
  550. * aj wonders if any of the incoming DPLs expect to be able to make announcements to users on behalf of the project via the debian-announce list [21:32:04]
  551. * sbex_ goes to smoke all these worries about *buntoo down [21:32:05]
  552. <wieselTM> slef: I can even global message them [21:32:05]
  553. <Lo-lan-do> Cats! What you say! [21:32:10]
  554. <wieselTM> Ganneff: no, I'd do it in the debate chanel [21:32:15]
  555. <Myon> weasel: make it 5 minutes then? [21:32:15]
  556. * slef looks at the dead m68k computer sat beside him [21:32:15]
  557. <MarcBrockschmidt> Zugschlu5: Apart from all the flaming, noone in their right mind can argue that we should release m68k with lenny [21:32:16]
  558. <Ganneff> weasel: boring [21:32:20]
  559. * NeilMcGovern looks at /notice [21:32:24]
  560. <Lo-lan-do> How are you gentlemen!!! [21:32:25]
  561. <Ganneff> weasel: how about every joined oper does it every 2 mins? [21:32:30]
  562. <wieselTM> hehe [21:32:34]
  563. <slef> sbex_: Easter buntoo? [21:32:37]
  564. <MarcBrockschmidt> aj: Well, actually, you don't need to be DPL to do that. You just need to know the magic [tm] :) [21:32:42]
  565. * sbex_ yells from the kitchen [21:32:47]
  566. <jaldhar> why is the debate do quiet? Hasn't started yet or already finished? [21:32:53]
  567. <Ganneff> wieselTM: and why do you hide in wieselTM and weasel? bad oper [21:32:55]
  568. <NeilMcGovern> Break [21:32:57]
  569. <jaldhar> ah [21:33:01]
  570. <slef> jaldhar: ad break [21:33:01]
  571. --- cloral has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:33:01]
  572. <wieselTM> they try to get in the cost that OFTC is charging for the use of the channel [21:33:19]
  573. <wieselTM> good luck, they need it [21:33:25]
  574. <zobel> aj: that is quite easy... just ask your very best listmaster to assist you... [21:33:30]
  575. <meebey> hm that might be a good question too, if the DPL candidates are involved somehow with Ubuntu or Canonical [21:33:46]
  576. <Ganneff> free for all, including watchers? :) [21:33:58]
  577. <Ganneff> meebey: they arent, per definition [21:34:07]
  578. <aj> slef,moray,don: still open for questions? [21:34:08]
  579. <moray> aj, yup [21:34:12]
  580. <NeilMcGovern> aj: yup [21:34:16]
  581. <slef> meebey: ack [21:34:17]
  582. <mjj29> meebey: or any other commercial linux org? [21:34:18]
  583. <Ganneff> meebey: ubuntu/canonical doesnt let you [21:34:18]
  584. <moray> (obviously can't guarantee they'll all get asked) [21:34:26]
  585. <Lo-lan-do> mjj29: Does freelancing count? [21:34:33]
  586. <meebey> Ganneff: well they still might contribute to ubuntu [21:34:37]
  587. <aj> QUESTION: will you be using devel-announce at all? (Bruce was awesome at that, back in the day...) [21:34:38]
  588. <aj> bah [21:34:46]
  589. <aj> debian-announce [21:34:48]
  590. * NeilMcGovern does the end of advert dance [21:34:51]
  591. <Ganneff> meebey: every DD is a ubuntu developer!!11 *vomit* [21:34:57]
  592. <slef> aj: ack*2 [21:34:57]
  593. <Womble2> Ganneff: They don't waste time hiring DPLs; they know the real power is with keyring-maint [21:34:58]
  594. <meebey> Ganneff: hehe [21:35:03]
  595. * GyrosGeier wonders why people hate m68k [21:35:13]
  596. <wieselTM> they don't anymore [21:35:20]
  597. <moray> Womble2: DPLs would want some time for Debian [21:35:21]
  598. <wieselTM> it doesn't delay releases or testing [21:35:26]
  599. <Lo-lan-do> GyrosGeier: We just don't care [21:35:27]
  600. <moray> now we hate the obsolete i386 instead [21:35:34]
  601. <GyrosGeier> Lo-lan-do, that is acceptable [21:35:37]
  602. <wieselTM> now we hate mips* and hppa and sometimes arm [21:35:37]
  603. <GyrosGeier> I also hate arm [21:35:45]
  604. <GyrosGeier> armel is the phuture [21:35:50]
  605. <Lo-lan-do> moray: Who you callin' obsolete, mate? [21:35:50]
  606. <Womble2> I hate s390 [21:35:51]
  607. <moray> Lo-lan-do: I used ARM before I used i386 ;) [21:36:07]
  608. <GyrosGeier> Womble2, just because there are more mirrors than installations? [21:36:08]
  609. * NeilMcGovern deprecates GyrosGeier [21:36:16]
  610. <Womble2> GyrosGeier: Quit possibly [21:36:18]
  611. <Womble2> +e [21:36:22]
  612. * Curan has a still running m68k machine with an multi-coloured apple logo on it [21:36:24]
  613. --- vortex has quit [Quit: leaving] [21:36:28]
  614. <Ganneff> GyrosGeier: i bet thats true for m68k too [21:36:28]
  615. <slef> Lo-lan-do: where's the 8086 port gone? [21:36:29]
  616. <Zugschlu5> GyrosGeier: then we could build infrastructure for per-arch mirrors, leaving that decision to the mirror admins [21:36:39]
  617. <Lo-lan-do> slef: Dunno. I'm too young for that. [21:36:40]
  618. <GyrosGeier> Ganneff, I have two m68k machines here [21:36:43]
  619. * bzed wants a zuse port. [21:36:45]
  620. <Ganneff> GyrosGeier: and? [21:37:02]
  621. <GyrosGeier> Zugschlu5, we essentially have that infrastructure [21:37:05]
  622. <linuX|Reneger> bzed :) [21:37:05]
  623. <MarcBrockschmidt> Ganneff: I think he wants to be pitied [21:37:16]
  624. <Zugschlu5> where is the problem then? [21:37:16]
  625. <Ganneff> GyrosGeier: there are hundreds and hundreds of mirrors. i bet 95% of the m68k are buildds for debian. [21:37:22]
  626. --- vortex has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:37:30]
  627. <bzed> GyrosGeier: sell it, before gentoo drops them, too ;) [21:37:30]
  628. <GyrosGeier> Zugschlu5, that the promised <arch>.<country>.debian.org aliases haven't been implemented yet [21:37:45]
  629. <jcristau> haha. "lately" [21:37:48]
  630. <jcristau> like, the last 10 years [21:37:53]
  631. <aj> GyrosGeier: they were earlier this week by joy, i think [21:37:57]
  632. <wieselTM> at least joy now has the power [21:38:06]
  633. <GyrosGeier> they are [21:38:08]
  634. <GyrosGeier> w0000t [21:38:10]
  635. <wieselTM> don't know if he used it yet [21:38:11]
  636. <aj> he mailed saying he had, i didn't check [21:38:24]
  637. * GyrosGeier checks [21:38:27]
  638. <wieselTM> weasel@rubicon:~$ dig @samosa.debian.org mirror.debian.net axfr [21:38:46]
  639. <wieselTM> indeed [21:38:47]
  640. <fjp> Again, no kicking out of inactive/problematic people... [21:38:51]
  641. <fjp> AAAAH! [21:39:02]
  642. <fjp> SteveMcIntyre: +1 [21:39:19]
  643. <seanius> teh walls have ears [21:39:46]
  644. <fjp> lol [21:39:56]
  645. <moray> is that "encourage" with a blunt object, or "encourage" some time before they die? [21:39:57]
  646. --- ore has left #debian-dpl-discuss [nota will lead us to the promised land] [21:40:03]
  647. * slef thinks he got drive-by'd in another place due to the tech-ctte thing, so he's not following it that closely any more. [21:40:08]
  648. <Lo-lan-do> Okay, so far Ian has been shot down by two candidates. MarcBrockschmidt, your move :-) [21:40:12]
  649. <broonie> moray: Those two options could end up being connected... [21:40:17]
  650. <slef> moray: after they die is easier. [21:40:19]
  651. <sbex_> more (new) people means more social problems :) [21:40:19]
  652. <GyrosGeier> stability through stagnation [21:40:38]
  653. <slef> sbex_: aye. The underlying roots are still there IMO. [21:40:40]
  654. <aj> sbex_: but different ones! variety's the spice of life, etc! [21:40:50]
  655. <NeilMcGovern> encourage is a good political word. /me takes notes [21:40:59]
  656. <wieselTM> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa [21:41:14]
  657. <mjj29> sbex_: add enough people and the problematic ones always lose votes [21:41:17]
  658. <sbex_> you mean ... nice new people like the *buntoo ones? :-p [21:41:17]
  659. <aj> NeilMcGovern: make sure you use air quotes at press conferences [21:41:19]
  660. * SteveMcIntyre looks for a knife [21:41:21]
  661. * SteveMcIntyre knows where NeilMcGovern lives... [21:41:28]
  662. <wieselTM> according to the SOA mirror.d.n has seen over 600 updates in a few days [21:41:28]
  663. <wieselTM> how did Joy update that zone!? [21:41:33]
  664. <Ganneff> scripts [21:41:39]
  665. <wieselTM> good thing there's only one NS. [21:41:43]
  666. <GyrosGeier> Debian's reputation is "we don't do anything until we're 100% sure" [21:41:50]
  667. <GyrosGeier> now there are two camps [21:41:55]
  668. <slef> NeilMcGovern: lacks something when you can't order people around or fire them completely, doesn't it? [21:41:58]
  669. <GyrosGeier> one that wants to change that [21:42:01]
  670. <meebey> oh dear I just noticed that google is ubuntu infected: http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF8&q=Marc+Brockschmidt+ubuntu [21:42:16]
  671. <GyrosGeier> and one that likes the idea of having one distribution that doesn't care about the bleeding edge [21:42:26]
  672. <meebey> google believets the debian changelog is an ubuntu changelog [21:42:27]
  673. <meebey> *sigh* [21:42:34]
  674. <slef> ooh, now Manoj gets a mention [21:42:35]
  675. <wieselTM> *hah* [21:42:38]
  676. <slef> meebey: google google bugs [21:42:44]
  677. <NeilMcGovern> slef: Tell that to Mr baseball bat here :) [21:42:47]
  678. <Ganneff> harrharr. not knowing debhelper is a bug now. [21:42:49]
  679. <fjp> Bravo RaphaelHertzog! [21:42:50]
  680. <wieselTM> he doesn't agree with me -> impossible to build a consensus [21:42:52]
  681. <sbex_> meebey: cant be real. the Google OS (tm) is based on debian! [21:42:57]
  682. <meebey> sbex_: not anymore? :) [21:43:10]
  683. <slef> NeilMcGovern: doesn't work if you're facing a masochist. [21:43:10]
  684. <aj> meebey: nice [21:43:14]
  685. <sbex_> oh no [21:43:15]
  686. <GyrosGeier> binutils doesn't use debhelper either [21:43:30]
  687. <wieselTM> let's remove it from the archive [21:43:38]
  688. <wieselTM> Ganneff: can you? [21:43:42]
  689. <wieselTM> or do you need a bug? [21:43:46]
  690. <Ganneff> sure. file bug. [21:43:47]
  691. <slef> GyrosGeier: does it use quilt? [21:43:49]
  692. <moray> sigh, Manoj is one of the sane-est people in Debian, despite his peculiarities [21:43:57]
  693. <GyrosGeier> not AFAIK [21:43:59]
  694. <slef> sheesh [21:44:07]
  695. <GyrosGeier> quilt is evil, by the way [21:44:07]
  696. <GyrosGeier> but seriously [21:44:51]
  697. <Womble2> GyrosGeier: Better than dpatch [21:44:55]
  698. <slef> what's someone's favourite completely non-team question? [21:45:04]
  699. <Ganneff> Womble2: i disagree [21:45:05]
  700. <Myon> less evil than m68k [21:45:06]
  701. <Zugschlu5> there is more than one way to do it, and I'd like things to stay that way [21:45:19]
  702. <GyrosGeier> do we have a candidate who recognizes the need to do things even if the majority of developers could care less [21:45:28]
  703. <fjp> moray: He's also an arch conservatist who will question any proposal for change and drags discussions into grandstanding. [21:45:29]
  704. * seanius ♥ quilt [21:45:33]
  705. <sbex_> GyrosGeier: you stole my question! [21:45:42]
  706. <slef> seanius: you box it? Does it fight back? [21:45:47]
  707. --- path has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:45:48]
  708. <Myon> fjp: arch in the tla sense? :) [21:45:55]
  709. <seanius> slef: get some moar utf8 fonts :) [21:46:05]
  710. --- cate has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:46:06]
  711. <GyrosGeier> for example, I'd hate to see arches removed because they hold off the release [21:46:09]
  712. <slef> GyrosGeier: ack [21:46:10]
  713. <slef> seanius: my other IRC client is utf8 [21:46:19]
  714. <ifvoid> what's cronyism? [21:46:20]
  715. <wieselTM> From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]: [21:46:32]
  716. <wieselTM> cronyism [21:46:32]
  717. <wieselTM> n : favoritism shown to friends and associates (as by appointing [21:46:32]
  718. <broonie> ifvoid: Appointing your friends to jobs [21:46:33]
  719. <wieselTM> them to positions without regard for their [21:46:35]
  720. <wieselTM> qualifications) [21:46:38]
  721. <ifvoid> hmm [21:46:44]
  722. <ifvoid> No definitions found for "cronyism" [21:46:45]
  723. <ifvoid> interesting [21:46:49]
  724. <Lo-lan-do> clique, coterie [21:46:50]
  725. <slef> cabal [21:46:55]
  726. <wieselTM> TINC [21:46:58]
  727. <ifvoid> thanks btw [21:47:01]
  728. <aj> slef: Will you shave your head, get a tattoo, or do something else whacky if we release lenny in the second half of this year? [21:47:01]
  729. <Lo-lan-do> Ssshh! [21:47:01]
  730. <fjp> maffia! [21:47:02]
  731. <aj> slef: err, " ... " [21:47:13]
  732. <GyrosGeier> Debian is a conglomerate of "special interest" groups, and all of the groups are yelling that their goals are more important than everyone else's [21:47:25]
  733. <xylome> GyrosGeier: ++ [21:47:45]
  734. <slef> aj: phew. ack. [21:47:46]
  735. <Lo-lan-do> And some individuals, too. [21:47:51]
  736. <sbex_> the question of a strong leader while the people dont want a strong leader? :) [21:47:51]
  737. <GyrosGeier> that is the reason Debian is so conservative -- if we simply jumped onto things, stuff would break [21:47:58]
  738. <cate> MarcBrockschmidt consfuse d-ctte with d-policy [21:48:20]
  739. <wieselTM> cate: no. [21:48:28]
  740. <broonie> The constitution pretty much explicitly aims to make the DPL weak. [21:48:30]
  741. <seanius> oh, i can answer this question [21:48:31]
  742. <seanius> WORLD PEACE [21:48:34]
  743. <moray> doughnuts [21:48:41]
  744. <Lo-lan-do> debconf.jp! [21:48:42]
  745. <stew> hookerz [21:48:46]
  746. <slef> a gold roller [21:48:46]
  747. <wieselTM> seanius: and more serious penalties for parole violators [21:48:47]
  748. <Ganneff> give me all the money! [21:48:49]
  749. <aj> "In the current US election there are three frontrunners, McCain, Obama and Hillary; who do you think your fellow candidates are most like and why?" :) [21:48:56]
  750. <ifvoid> good question [21:48:56]
  751. <broonie> moray: Think of what that'll do the Debcoonf travel costs. [21:48:56]
  752. <Ganneff> money for ganneff! repeat, everyone! [21:49:00]
  753. <MarcBrockschmidt> cate: Actually, I don't :-) [21:49:18]
  754. <NeilMcGovern> aj: a bit US centric... :) [21:49:22]
  755. <sbex_> aj, does australia have a democracy, too? [21:49:23]
  756. <cate> wieselTM: why not? [21:49:24]
  757. <slef> aj: ack, probably will appear later, I suspect [21:49:24]
  758. <GyrosGeier> FWIW, I can live with the current policy process (i.e. implement first, not breaking anything, then update policy) [21:49:27]
  759. <fjp> money from Ganneff everyone! [21:49:28]
  760. <meebey> lol [21:49:34]
  761. <wieselTM> money from ganneff [21:49:35]
  762. <moray> sbex_, no, they have a queen who sends a governor over [21:49:37]
  763. <Ganneff> bad fjp, cant even read and repeat right [21:49:39]
  764. <Ganneff> wieselTM also disqualified. i wont vote for you two! [21:49:49]
  765. <wieselTM> cate: the ctte's job pretty much was to decide on tough questions of policy. [21:49:52]
  766. <GyrosGeier> oh dear [21:49:53]
  767. <wieselTM> cate: only they never really did it [21:50:01]
  768. <GyrosGeier> I should have run for DPL this year [21:50:01]
  769. <slef> "Our election period is awfully short. Should we remodel the DPL election on the US presidential one?" [21:50:02]
  770. <Lo-lan-do> Beer! Ponies! [21:50:03]
  771. <broonie> Drunk ponies [21:50:12]
  772. <jcristau> machines from Ganneff! [21:50:13]
  773. <NeilMcGovern> Easy? I thought that would be a hard question! :) [21:50:20]
  774. <Lo-lan-do> jcristau: But we have them already! [21:50:24]
  775. <moray> think how many m68ks we could buy [21:50:24]
  776. <ifvoid> moray: lol [21:50:29]
  777. <Lo-lan-do> Well, he has them. [21:50:30]
  778. <GyrosGeier> moray, we have enough of them [21:50:32]
  779. <jcristau> Lo-lan-do: we do? [21:50:34]
  780. <Curan> slef: then give a short characterization along please (for not-us-citizens) [21:50:36]
  781. <wieselTM> moray: but the electricity bill would kill you [21:50:39]
  782. <ifvoid> hmm, doesn't debconf have enough money anyway? [21:50:54]
  783. <fjp> moray: Don't you get money with those these days? [21:50:55]
  784. <NeilMcGovern> ifvoid: we never have enough [21:51:02]
  785. * SteveMcIntyre nods NeilMcGovern [21:51:09]
  786. <Ganneff> ifvoid: nope. [21:51:15]
  787. <slef> Curan: I'm not posting it and I'm not US, but US election seems to take 11 months [21:51:15]
  788. <ifvoid> NeilMcGovern: enough for what? [21:51:16]
  789. <NeilMcGovern> ifvoid: anything [21:51:21]
  790. <Ganneff> not even near than enough. [21:51:23]
  791. <ifvoid> NeilMcGovern: paying travelling costs? [21:51:30]
  792. <moray> SteveMcIntyre: of course, we could burn through that pretty quickly for travel costs [21:51:31]
  793. <aj> slef: you're understating [21:51:31]
  794. <ifvoid> or just making it even nicer? [21:51:36]
  795. <NeilMcGovern> oh, and for those interested, IIRC, about 100k is the approx amount @ SPI [21:51:45]
  796. <slef> ifvoid: it can't even afford a couple of cheap train tickets, apparently [21:51:47]
  797. <ifvoid> I mean, you can alsways spent more money, I don't doubt that [21:51:48]
  798. <Ganneff> ifvoid: even paying for the venue is always bad. [21:51:49]
  799. <ifvoid> but would it actually help Debian? [21:51:56]
  800. <NeilMcGovern> ifvoid: we pay about 20% of people's travel. [21:51:59]
  801. <wieselTM> ifvoid: no. [21:52:13]
  802. <Lo-lan-do> NeilMcGovern: In USD, or in real money? :-) [21:52:13]
  803. <Ganneff> ifvoid: yes [21:52:14]
  804. <zobel> QUESTION: debian had it's debian weekly news stopped, as the only how was able to post on -news stopped working on it, and did not accept others taking over (when not using his style). similar on other stuff about -news... how do you think our press team should work.... [21:52:14]
  805. * GyrosGeier feels reminded to register [21:52:15]
  806. <NeilMcGovern> Lo-lan-do: USD. [21:52:17]
  807. <ifvoid> NeilMcGovern: oh, I though that was much more [21:52:22]
  808. <xylome> Lo-lan-do: ++ [21:52:24]
  809. <slef> zobel: ack [21:52:28]
  810. <ifvoid> No definitions found for "cronyism" [21:52:29]
  811. <NeilMcGovern> ifvoid: Well, that was about a year ago [21:52:29]
  812. <sbex_> zobel++ [21:52:39]
  813. <GyrosGeier> zobel, I see your sneaky attempt to make them say "team" [21:52:57]
  814. <moray> if we just wait a few more months to spend it, we can use our 100k USD to buy a couple of beers [21:53:05]
  815. <ifvoid> MarcBrockschmidt: just, but a few arm machines and harddrives aren't going to cost $100k [21:53:20]
  816. --- f0rtex has quit [Quit: Leaving] [21:53:22]
  817. <GyrosGeier> true [21:53:30]
  818. <ifvoid> s/just/sure/ [21:53:32]
  819. <ifvoid> weird "typo" [21:53:37]
  820. <wieselTM> just you wait until we have to buy a people.debian.org [21:53:39]
  821. <abrotman> *big* hard drives! [21:53:40]
  822. <wieselTM> that's gonna cost [21:53:41]
  823. <jcristau> GyrosGeier: i thought he wanted them to say "without Joey" [21:53:41]
  824. <Lo-lan-do> Or we could wait 'till tomorrow and buy billions and billions if Zimbabwean dollars [21:53:42]
  825. <GyrosGeier> but it might make sense to spend it now while we still get stuff for it [21:53:46]
  826. <moray> ice-cream! [21:54:02]
  827. <GyrosGeier> moray++ [21:54:08]
  828. <ifvoid> we should exchange the money into Euro's btw ;) [21:54:25]
  829. <fjp> zobel: You're wanted on #d-lists :-) [21:54:37]
  830. <aj> ffis has some amount of euro's in debian's name [21:54:39]
  831. <meebey> ifvoid: ack, before its too late [21:54:47]
  832. <aj> ditto debian swiss etc [21:54:56]
  833. <MarcBrockschmidt> aj: But noone knows how much it is :-) [21:54:56]
  834. <moray> I hear SPI has a great relationship with a European organisation that also holds money for us (cough) [21:55:04]
  835. <aj> MarcBrockschmidt: i'm sure /someone/ does [21:55:10]
  836. <GyrosGeier> the big problem with spending money is that you don't want recurring expenses [21:55:12]
  837. * Curan reminds the audiance that the Euro was the first currancy that required ads ;) [21:55:21]
  838. <MarcBrockschmidt> moray: HELP! Tea and keyboards don't mix well! [21:55:22]
  839. <slef> aj: their name has an i in it, but it always makes me smile. [21:55:25]
  840. <ifvoid> GyrosGeier: why not? [21:55:27]
  841. <sbex_> moray: you mean the money in Lichtenstein? [21:55:34]
  842. <aj> slef: somehow i never noticed that [21:55:49]
  843. <ifvoid> slef: hehe [21:55:49]
  844. <ifvoid> uh [21:55:54]
  845. <ifvoid> sbex_: [21:55:55]
  846. <aj> bah, technical is way sexy [21:56:17]
  847. <GyrosGeier> ifvoid, ongoing commitments need to be planned ahead for multiple years [21:56:32]
  848. <ifvoid> GyrosGeier: of course [21:56:38]
  849. <slef> aj: all those male and female connectors, huh? [21:56:41]
  850. <ifvoid> GyrosGeier: that's why we have a treasurer, right? [21:56:49]
  851. <Lo-lan-do> Whatever happened to Mr. "I'll rewrite debian.org with Wordpress" by the way? [21:56:51]
  852. <broonie> Lo-lan-do: He's in rehab now? [21:57:10]
  853. <slef> Lo-lan-do: he's in the skip behind the university of edinburgh I think [21:57:13]
  854. <Ganneff> his machine got hacked thanks to wordpress, i guess [21:57:18]
  855. <moray> Lo-lan-do: he's just waiting to be appointed as new blood to the technical committee [21:57:18]
  856. <aj> slef: what, they don't empty it? [21:57:27]
  857. <Womble2> ITP: debian-women-calendar [21:57:32]
  858. <slef> btw, anyone know about www.opendesigns.org or whatever it was mentioned on debian-www yesterday? [21:57:44]
  859. <Womble2> but to be fair, ITP: debian-men-calendar too [21:57:44]
  860. <GyrosGeier> ifvoid, and there are very few things that won't suck us dry in the long run [21:57:46]
  861. <NeilMcGovern> For the candidates; by the way, the correct answer to the money question was "buy Maulkin beer" :P [21:57:46]
  862. <SteveMcIntyre> riiight [21:57:55]
  863. <slef> aj: welcome to refuse collection uk-style [21:58:00]
  864. <GyrosGeier> ifvoid, if we ever paid for a server, people would be more reluctant to give us one for free [21:58:17]
  865. <aj> Womble2: we already have mencal don't we? [21:58:20]
  866. <ifvoid> GyrosGeier: true [21:58:23]
  867. <mjj29> MarcBrockschmidt++ [21:58:24]
  868. <moray> yes, it's true, ed.ac.uk employ the Neapolitan rubbish collectors [21:58:24]
  869. * slef ponders the proximity of Womble2 and GyrosGeier's comments [21:58:30]
  870. <mjj29> I have written a proposal for just that [21:58:36]
  871. <wieselTM> our big major source of servers is HP [21:58:39]
  872. <Womble2> aj: Not quite what I was thinking of [21:58:43]
  873. <mjj29> (also, tbf, so has buxy) [21:58:46]
  874. <wieselTM> I wonder if somebody has contacts with IBM or Sun [21:58:49]
  875. --- pusling has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [21:58:58]
  876. <wieselTM> they build nice hardware too .. :) [21:58:58]
  877. * moray wonders if MarcBrockschmidt means "vote but not upload" or also "upload but not vote" [21:58:59]
  878. <Myon> HE++ [21:59:07]
  879. <wieselTM> moray: we already have the second [21:59:10]
  880. <mjj29> moray: I think both work [21:59:15]
  881. <sbex_> this is my chance now. non-tech people who are enthusiasts! [21:59:16]
  882. <moray> wieselTM: I know, not that I like it [21:59:17]
  883. <wieselTM> same here [21:59:21]
  884. <wieselTM> DMs is a bad idea. [21:59:26]
  885. <aj> wieselTM: we've had some IBM h/w for LSB stuff, iirc; and some Sun hardware that got co-opted before DSA/buildd got a chance to claim it [21:59:55]
  886. <MarcBrockschmidt> moray: "upload but not vote" is Debian Maintainers - which is a good idea, but I'm not too happy about the implementation [21:59:58]
  887. <GyrosGeier> "upload but not vote" is indeed a bad idea [22:00:04]
  888. <slef> there should be three debian cooperatives: maintainers, users and organisation... [22:00:08]
  889. * slef runs [22:00:18]
  890. <mjj29> wieselTM: I certainly think that it's good to have a step between no archive access and full archive access [22:00:26]
  891. <GyrosGeier> yes [22:00:35]
  892. <mjj29> which is tied to voting I'm less sure about [22:00:36]
  893. <GyrosGeier> that makes sense [22:00:38]
  894. <Womble2> slef: you forgot journalists [22:00:41]
  895. <fjp> mjj29: DM maybe? [22:00:46]
  896. <mjj29> and I _definitely_ think that the everything should go through some sort of NM [22:00:57]
  897. <ifvoid> mjj29: sure, but the DM status seems to be used as a workaround for the NM process [22:00:58]
  898. <sbex_> Womble2: writers can be useful if you treat them nice :-p [22:01:00]
  899. <mjj29> (a fixed NM...) [22:01:07]
  900. --- marga has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:01:14]
  901. <slef> Womble2: do we have them now, where are they hiding and can you unleash them on SJVN please? [22:01:17]
  902. --- ralph has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:01:24]
  903. <MarcBrockschmidt> moray: [Most of my problems with DM are the abuse of the Uploaders field and the implicated limitations of the system] [22:01:29]
  904. <marga> I just arrived... Is there an online log of what I've missed? :( [22:01:31]
  905. <helmut> QUESTION: What is more important or more needed and why? Getting new people interested in Debian or getting interested people into the project and doing work. [22:01:32]
  906. <slef> helmut: ack [22:01:44]
  907. <Womble2> slef: Are you claiming to be recovered from journalism? [22:01:53]
  908. <wieselTM> aj: hmmm. [22:01:57]
  909. <aj> helmut: why do we have to choose? [22:01:59]
  910. <cate> DD is not a simple task... and we should not lower the package standard. IMHO ubuntu quality of package are worse [22:02:12]
  911. <helmut> aj: resources are limited (obviously) [22:02:18]
  912. <slef> Womble2: not really... you never recover - you're just not currently employed in it [22:02:19]
  913. <slef> marga: 1mo [22:02:34]
  914. <GyrosGeier> cate, agreed [22:02:36]
  915. <GyrosGeier> I believe sponsorship can scale [22:02:50]
  916. --- bma has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [22:02:55]
  917. <aj> helmut: Ubuntu have both, eg [22:02:57]
  918. <helmut> aj: otherwise we would already be doing both things and not bother making debian more sexy. [22:03:05]
  919. <GyrosGeier> but for people who have proven themselves, we need a way to make them full DDs in a sane timeframe [22:03:27]
  920. --- xylome has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [22:03:29]
  921. <aj> helmut: we're not doing all that much of any of those three atm though are we? [22:03:30]
  922. <GyrosGeier> oh lahwd [22:03:55]
  923. <Lo-lan-do> He said team! [22:03:56]
  924. * GyrosGeier takes another shot [22:04:00]
  925. * ifvoid takes a sip of his wine [22:04:05]
  926. <moray> hm, my glass was empty already [22:04:09]
  927. <wieselTM> moray: that's cheating [22:04:17]
  928. <schue> mascots... oh brother. [22:04:18]
  929. <aj> can we have two debates next year, one that's in the afternoon/evening .au time? [22:04:22]
  930. <moray> I'll have to wait for the next break to refill [22:04:26]
  931. * SteveMcIntyre takes a drink too [22:04:32]
  932. <ifvoid> oh yeah, weasel was going to be our mascotte \o/ [22:04:34]
  933. <mjj29> we have debian-community.org?? [22:04:39]
  934. <SteveMcIntyre> or is that cheating? :-) [22:04:39]
  935. <wieselTM> ifvoid: die. [22:04:44]
  936. <moray> aj: so that only Australians are there? [22:04:45]
  937. <Zugschlu5> QUESTION: What do you think about our core packages (dpkg, X, apt, aptitude, KDE, openOffice) being maintained by (too) small teams? Do you plan to do things to encourage people to contribute to existing important packages instead of uploading the 30st lightweight http daemon? [22:04:48]
  938. <Ganneff> kde is core? since when? [22:05:04]
  939. <slef> marga: should be http://serene.ttllp.co.uk/~mjr/oftc-%23debian-dpl-debate.log temporarily - sorry for the delay [22:05:05]
  940. <Curan> Zugschl5: +++++++ [22:05:06]
  941. <wieselTM> Ganneff: if OOo qualifies... [22:05:14]
  942. <Myon> kore package [22:05:17]
  943. <aj> moray: evening .au is middayish europe [22:05:18]
  944. <helmut> aj: if we did it would't be a topic [22:05:19]
  945. <ifvoid> Ganneff: s/core/important/ [22:05:19]
  946. <marga> slef: tnx a lot. [22:05:23]
  947. <path> Ganneff, there is a KDE debian official team [22:05:25]
  948. <pusling> kde kore always likes new people... [22:05:32]
  949. <Ganneff> path: and? that doesnt make it core [22:05:35]
  950. <Curan> especially things like OOo, Icedove... [22:05:36]
  951. <wieselTM> we should have a modbot [22:05:39]
  952. <wieselTM> everybody that says team gets muted for 10 seconds [22:05:48]
  953. <wieselTM> then 20, then 40, etc. [22:05:52]
  954. <Ganneff> core is something thats important for every debian install. [22:05:54]
  955. <path> team! [22:05:58]
  956. <path> :D [22:05:59]
  957. <slef> Zugschlu5: ack [22:05:59]
  958. <luk_> team [22:06:01]
  959. <moray> there is a GPE team too [22:06:05]
  960. <schue> what we need is a team development team. [22:06:09]
  961. <moray> so obviously GPE is core Debian [22:06:09]
  962. <wieselTM> <insert scene from the IT-Crowd> [22:06:11]
  963. <sam> A-Team [22:06:14]
  964. <path> wieselTM, hahaha [22:06:21]
  965. <pusling> there is also a Debian Krap Maintainers team [22:06:24]
  966. <slef> yay bun and hot drink! [22:06:25]
  967. <Lo-lan-do> Ni! [22:06:25]
  968. <meebey> .oO( cooperate with ubuntu? that fails day of the tentacle test... ) [22:06:26]
  969. <zobel> slef: does your ack mean, the question will be asked? :) [22:06:31]
  970. * GyrosGeier was just about to type "in before A-Team" [22:06:33]
  971. <ifvoid> meebey: the DotT test? [22:06:36]
  972. <Lo-lan-do> meebey: What test? [22:06:44]
  973. <moray> meebey: cooperating with them on making Debian sexy sounds confusing [22:06:53]
  974. <slef> zobel: it means I've forwarded it to moderators [22:06:59]
  975. <wieselTM> Department of the Tentacle test [22:06:59]
  976. <Curan> maybe a good idea for better visibilty would be to support a few help ressources in each country/language like debianforum.de [22:07:07]
  977. <wieselTM> it's like Minitru [22:07:13]
  978. <fjp> That's because d-announce is dead... [22:07:14]
  979. <schue> what we need to do is get a dev-team working with blender to help package their development pipeline. [22:07:16]
  980. <schue> THAT will get artists attention. [22:07:29]
  981. <wieselTM> hahaha [22:07:31]
  982. <wieselTM> debianforum.de [22:07:35]
  983. <wieselTM> next you suggest the unixforum folks too [22:07:41]
  984. --- mbiebl has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:07:45]
  985. <pusling> debian blender team to go and serve smoothies [22:07:52]
  986. <schue> apt-get install bigbuckbunny [22:08:06]
  987. <zobel> fjp: well it is not completly dead, but related to my question asked earlier... [22:08:23]
  988. <meebey> ifvoid, Lo-lan-do: I tried to be funny with the dfsg dott test in a different context ;) [22:08:28]
  989. <sbex_> the year 2008 is going to be a good year. i can feel that when i look at the bug reports [22:08:46]
  990. <Lo-lan-do> meebey: I still don't know what you're talking about [22:08:51]
  991. <meebey> Lo-lan-do: geee [22:08:58]
  992. <ifvoid> meebey: yeah, I was thinking what it would entail [22:09:05]
  993. <Lo-lan-do> Take on hte world? [22:09:07]
  994. <fjp> NeilMcGovern: Hmm. Where's my Q in the queue? [22:09:08]
  995. <GyrosGeier> sbex_, you mean like my bug report against gnash? [22:09:11]
  996. <Zugschlu5> ouch, that was a joey-slap [22:09:11]
  997. <slef> stop making up tests... we only end up arguing them later [22:09:18]
  998. * wieselTM wants back to 2000 [22:09:20]
  999. <Curan> wieselTM: well the wiki is sometimes quite a nice ressource for beginners [22:09:22]
  1000. <wieselTM> potato was our best release [22:09:23]
  1001. <ifvoid> meebey: still being able to freely use the package after mutating into an evil alien en travelling back in time? [22:09:30]
  1002. <sbex_> GyrosGeier: what is gnash? :-p [22:09:31]
  1003. <NeilMcGovern> fjp: which one? [22:09:31]
  1004. <MarcBrockschmidt> wieselTM: Adding amd64 to the archive was a mistake! [22:09:38]
  1005. <fjp> The /msg'ed one [22:09:39]
  1006. <GyrosGeier> sbex_, a free Flash player [22:09:41]
  1007. <NeilMcGovern> will look [22:09:43]
  1008. <meebey> ifvoid: lol [22:09:47]
  1009. <meebey> Lo-lan-do: cant find the URL right now, afaik its in the DFSG FAQ [22:10:02]
  1010. <sbex_> GyrosGeier: is Miry still maintaining it btw? [22:10:08]
  1011. <Lo-lan-do> I'll search, thanks [22:10:15]
  1012. <GyrosGeier> MarcBrockschmidt, the evil dpkg cabal in EDI decided that amd64 would be folded back into Debian [22:10:16]
  1013. <GyrosGeier> sbex_, I think so [22:10:26]
  1014. <Tolimar> Sidenode: There are at least two people allowed to post to -news and -announce. [22:10:30]
  1015. <wieselTM> cheers [22:10:31]
  1016. <ifvoid> OE [22:10:39]
  1017. <ifvoid> a dooacracy \o/ [22:10:44]
  1018. * fjp accepts a beer from SteveMcIntyre [22:10:44]
  1019. <jcristau> SteveMcIntyre: scotch here, no beer [22:10:45]
  1020. * Myon hands SteveMcIntyre a beer [22:10:45]
  1021. <GyrosGeier> sbex_, my bug report was "does not work with badgerbadgerbadger.com" [22:10:52]
  1022. * Ganneff wants milk [22:11:02]
  1023. <meebey> Lo-lan-do: its called "The Tentacles of Evil test." in the DFSG FAQ [22:11:05]
  1024. <jaldhar> Tolimar: joey and who else? [22:11:15]
  1025. * zobel orders a ambulance care before SteveMcIntyre is completly drunk... [22:11:22]
  1026. <MarcBrockschmidt> jaldhar: Tolimar [22:11:24]
  1027. <NeilMcGovern> fjp: given-back, and debate-wanna-build priority bumped. [22:11:24]
  1028. <meebey> somehow I remembered that one as DOTT :-P [22:11:26]
  1029. <luk_> Tolimar: tnx for the times you did use it [22:11:30]
  1030. <NeilMcGovern> Only on m68k though [22:11:32]
  1031. <MarcBrockschmidt> NeilMcGovern: ... Bah :) [22:11:39]
  1032. --- ScottK has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Konversation terminated!] [22:11:41]
  1033. <fjp> :-) [22:11:45]
  1034. <wieselTM> that question was badly worded [22:11:51]
  1035. <Lo-lan-do> Oh. I see. [22:11:52]
  1036. <mjj29> <+SteveMcIntyre> let's remove blockages that cause us problems <-- steve++ [22:11:52]
  1037. <wieselTM> it should have been "Joey is not a teamplayer and should be gotten rid of. Do you agree, yes/no" [22:12:06]
  1038. <moray> mjj29: is he talking about curry? [22:12:23]
  1039. * GyrosGeier curses wieselTM and drinks [22:12:26]
  1040. <jaldhar> MarcBrockschmidt: oh I see [22:12:31]
  1041. --- robertle has quit [Quit: zzz] [22:12:44]
  1042. <sbex_> is being a master in cabale an essential to be a team player? [22:12:50]
  1043. <Lo-lan-do> So far, I'm counting two slaps on iwj, one on elmo, one on joey. [22:12:51]
  1044. <mjj29> moray: lol [22:12:54]
  1045. <slef> wieselTM: do you think we'd get a press release out of it? [22:12:54]
  1046. <slef> Lo-lan-do: was there one on Manoj too? [22:13:04]
  1047. <Myon> I gave up on submitting DWN items after I realized Joey was rewriting every submission from scratch [22:13:13]
  1048. <pusling> is the logs already public somewhere ? [22:13:13]
  1049. <Lo-lan-do> Ah yes. That too. [22:13:17]
  1050. <Zugschlu5> MarcBrockschmidt: good call. really politician ;) [22:13:33]
  1051. <ifvoid> pusling: I can send you the logs if you like [22:13:34]
  1052. <slef> pusling: should be http://serene.ttllp.co.uk/~mjr/oftc-%23debian-dpl-debate.log temporarily - will move away later [22:13:35]
  1053. <Lo-lan-do> iwj/2, elmo/1, manoj/1, joey/1. Come on guys, you can do better! [22:13:37]
  1054. <ifvoid> ah [22:13:39]
  1055. <pusling> slef: thanks. [22:13:50]
  1056. <luk_> MarcBrockschmidt: and now the counter part :-) [22:14:07]
  1057. <Lo-lan-do> Does that count as a slap? [22:14:47]
  1058. <sbex_> there used to be a cabale detection code in form of a graph what gpg keyes where signed by whom. does that still exist? [22:14:52]
  1059. <Womble2> Myon: Oh, you thought it was a cheap way to put out press releases? ;-) [22:15:09]
  1060. <MarcBrockschmidt> Zugschlu5: Heh, I already promised to quit the project and go into german politics if I'm not elected as DPL [22:15:20]
  1061. <Lo-lan-do> team! [22:15:23]
  1062. <ifvoid> ah that was nice [22:15:23]
  1063. <SteveMcIntyre> MarcBrockschmidt: woo! \o/ [22:15:37]
  1064. <moray> sbex_: the real cabal members don't sign GPG keys [22:15:39]
  1065. <Myon> sbex_: there's a keyring analysis somewhere, iirc weasel runs it [22:15:39]
  1066. <slef> sbex_: look in people.d.o under weasel or edward [22:15:49]
  1067. <sbex_> Myon: so he could be theoretically one of the masters in cabale? :) [22:15:57]
  1068. <zobel> RaphaelHertzog: nack. see debian-publicity, where quite a lot of content gets posted, but not taken up by the press team [22:16:02]
  1069. <fjp> RaphaelHertzog: -1 [22:16:08]
  1070. <jcristau> buxy-- [22:16:21]
  1071. <Myon> zobel: inviting yet another hidden list won't change anything [22:16:27]
  1072. <wieselTM> is it only me or is wiki.d.o really horrible? [22:16:28]
  1073. <slef> Myon: re DWN and rewrites - me too. [22:16:28]
  1074. <aj> one of these days i'll actuallyrealise zobel and fjp are different people... [22:16:36]
  1075. <Myon> err, inventing [22:16:38]
  1076. <moray> wieselTM: It's a Wiki. [22:16:41]
  1077. <wieselTM> the gentoo wiki on the other hand is really useful [22:16:44]
  1078. <Myon> BINGO [22:16:50]
  1079. <MarcBrockschmidt> SteveMcIntyre: Yeah - you just need to win and can finally start having fun without me :-P [please don't take this serious] [22:16:56]
  1080. <sbex_> wieselTM: do you assign my first job right now? [22:17:00]
  1081. <wieselTM> most of the time the articles on the gentoo wiki explain debian anyway, and mention gentoo's precedure only in passing [22:17:11]
  1082. * SteveMcIntyre passes a beer to MarcBrockschmidt [22:17:12]
  1083. <Myon> http://paste.debian.net/51923 [22:17:12]
  1084. <wieselTM> sbex_: hm? [22:17:30]
  1085. <luk_> wieselTM: no one is stopping you from using the Gentoo wiki, maybe we should all use it for Debian related stuff ;-) [22:17:36]
  1086. <slef> let's start a wiki [22:17:38]
  1087. <aj> MarcBrockschmidt: eww, you're serious about going into politics? [22:17:42]
  1088. <sbex_> wieselTM: making the debian wiki useful :) [22:17:52]
  1089. <moray> aj: NeilMcGovern started it [22:17:54]
  1090. <slef> all our problems will be solved [22:17:57]
  1091. <aj> MarcBrockschmidt: best of luck and all, but the last thing the world needs is more politicians :( [22:17:59]
  1092. <slef> won''''''t they? [22:18:06]
  1093. <aj> ooo [22:18:09]
  1094. <MarcBrockschmidt> aj: Sure. I'm following Fischer. I'm already planning on doing the fat/slim cycle [22:18:12]
  1095. <broonie> aj: Says a former holder of elected office... [22:18:19]
  1096. <wieselTM> slef: go ahead and make it useful, if you can [22:18:19]
  1097. <fjp> aj: I thought lawyers? [22:18:20]
  1098. <aj> QUESTION: What do you think ofBruce's bid to rejoin OSI? ;) [22:18:20]
  1099. <wieselTM> erm [22:18:21]
  1100. <slef> Are you, or have you ever been, a politician? [22:18:22]
  1101. <wieselTM> s/slef/sbex_/ [22:18:26]
  1102. --- smcv has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:18:28]
  1103. <aj> broonie: current, thanks very much; i'm on the Linux Australia board [22:18:38]
  1104. <slef> aj: ack [22:18:40]
  1105. <wieselTM> slef: I can neither confirm nor deny ever having been a politician [22:18:40]
  1106. <NeilMcGovern> slef: have you stopped beating your wife yet? [22:18:58]
  1107. <pusling> QUESTION: What important technical decisions have you done last year? How would you rate them? Both the "process" and the "result" needs a comment. [22:19:48]
  1108. <slef> NeilMcGovern: my, that's a nice prejudice ;-) [22:20:05]
  1109. <aj> slef: have you stopped beating Maulkin's wife yet? [22:20:17]
  1110. <NeilMcGovern> lol [22:20:22]
  1111. <slef> pusling: ack [22:20:25]
  1112. <NeilMcGovern> aj: has my wife stopped beating you yet? [22:20:40]
  1113. <sbex_> slef: for how long are you married? [22:20:48]
  1114. <aj> NeilMcGovern: she's taking a break while i follow the debate, we figured debian politics was masochistic enough... [22:21:06]
  1115. <marga> I think the lack of interest is due to the fact that DPL's in the past haven't been able to do much about Debian in general. [22:21:07]
  1116. <NeilMcGovern> heh [22:21:11]
  1117. <slef> sbex_: about six foot. [22:21:15]
  1118. --- cate has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] [22:21:18]
  1119. <marga> And whatever _was_ done is generally lost in the noise. [22:21:24]
  1120. <broonie> marga: and we've only just realised this? [22:21:26]
  1121. <marga> broonie: uhm... maybe? [22:21:42]
  1122. <broonie> (quite possibly) [22:21:45]
  1123. <wieselTM> no nutjobs? [22:21:47]
  1124. <Zugschlu5> marga: noise? [22:21:50]
  1125. <aj> wieselTM: someone's bignoting themselves! [22:21:55]
  1126. <wieselTM> it could be argued that that's a requirement for running ... [22:21:56]
  1127. <marga> Zugschlu5: flamewars and such. [22:21:58]
  1128. <moray> wieselTM: indeed [22:22:11]
  1129. <luk_> MarcBrockschmidt: there were some spelling mistakes that make your answer interpretable in more than one way... [22:22:42]
  1130. <sbex_> a good flamewar is a bit like intensive feelings of love just expressed in a strange way [22:22:44]
  1131. <MarcBrockschmidt> luk_: Yeah, I know. [22:22:54]
  1132. <wieselTM> luk_: ambiguity is the sign of a good politician [22:22:57]
  1133. <luk_> lol [22:23:04]
  1134. --- Tolimar has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Good Night!] [22:23:21]
  1135. <moray> "DPL candidates agree they are uninteresting" [22:24:10]
  1136. <wieselTM> moray: are you writing an article for the onion? [22:24:23]
  1137. <Ganneff> all like what MarcBrockschmidt says. thats not very good, politicians have to disagree, even if they really agree! [22:24:32]
  1138. <Myon> let's jump to next year's elections [22:24:35]
  1139. <aj> "Black man asks for change" [22:24:35]
  1140. <Womble2> Will the next Earth president be Jack Johnson or John Jackson? [22:24:45]
  1141. <GyrosGeier> IMO, people are apathetic because you all say mostly the same [22:24:45]
  1142. <Womble2> They just said that. [22:24:59]
  1143. <Lo-lan-do> Double-team! [22:25:07]
  1144. * SteveMcIntyre drinks [22:25:15]
  1145. <Lo-lan-do> Did someone keep tabs on that? [22:25:22]
  1146. <fjp> GyrosGeier should have run this year; fits right in ;-) [22:25:30]
  1147. <moray> wieselTM: sadly I'm not sure the Onion will want to run a feature on the DPL elections [22:25:31]
  1148. <GyrosGeier> fjp, yup [22:25:39]
  1149. <sgran> I think that was a double word score, everyone has to have 4 drinks [22:25:51]
  1150. <wieselTM> moray: ask the listmasters to create a debian-onion list then [22:25:52]
  1151. * Zugschlu5 writes an article for the quibbler [22:26:01]
  1152. <slef> el rog? [22:26:09]
  1153. * Curan is sure it get's reprinted later in the daily prophet [22:26:27]
  1154. <slef> surely it needs to be reprinted earlier to be a prophesy? [22:26:48]
  1155. <NeilMcGovern> There was a debian-inquirer thing at one point... [22:26:52]
  1156. * GyrosGeier wonders if we can talk Manoj into adding write-in candidate functionality into devotee [22:26:58]
  1157. <slef> GyrosGeier: Natalie Portman [22:27:11]
  1158. <Womble2> ITYM CowboyNeal [22:27:23]
  1159. <Lo-lan-do> Even the moderator says team now! [22:27:24]
  1160. <Zugschlu5> slef: *shwing* [22:27:28]
  1161. * wieselTM brings out the last reserves [22:27:38]
  1162. <slef> Lo-lan-do: it's contagious [22:27:45]
  1163. <Lo-lan-do> SteveMcIntyre: ++ [22:27:46]
  1164. <psn_> thar be fighting talk [22:27:51]
  1165. <wieselTM> how do you replace DSA? [22:27:52]
  1166. <Myon> SteveMcIntyre++ [22:27:53]
  1167. <moray> maybe we can spend the 100k on security for the DPL [22:27:59]
  1168. <wieselTM> how do you replace ftp master? [22:27:59]
  1169. <slef> Lo-lan-do: team is an estate agent here, you know? [22:27:59]
  1170. <NeilMcGovern> That was straight and to the point. [22:28:01]
  1171. <wieselTM> how do you replace keyring maint? [22:28:03]
  1172. <sbex_> moray: haha! [22:28:08]
  1173. <Ganneff> wieselTM: take over dns, build up new infrastructure. :) [22:28:10]
  1174. <NeilMcGovern> wieselTM: keyring maint is easy to replace. [22:28:12]
  1175. <GyrosGeier> I aprovve of all this people saying "team", and stuff. [22:28:14]
  1176. <wieselTM> NeilMcGovern: not if dsa/ftp won't help [22:28:23]
  1177. <mjj29> the people with root on the right machines can replace everyone else [22:28:27]
  1178. <NeilMcGovern> DSA is much harder :) [22:28:31]
  1179. <Zugschlu5> RaphaelHertzog -- [22:28:41]
  1180. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: not really. (unless you count the flamewars) [22:28:43]
  1181. <mjj29> those people can be replaced by filing lawsuits to get the domain somewhere else [22:28:46]
  1182. <NeilMcGovern> Ganneff: In pure technical terms, yes. [22:28:56]
  1183. <Lo-lan-do> RaphaelHertzog: I guess the question applies to when the core youknowwhat refuses to talk to the whole DPL gang [22:28:56]
  1184. <wieselTM> the domain is with joerg [22:28:57]
  1185. <jcristau> Zugschlu5: careful or he'll wrap around [22:28:59]
  1186. <wieselTM> not with DSA [22:28:59]
  1187. <marga> mjj29: not the thing we'd like to do. [22:29:01]
  1188. <mjj29> marga: well, no, that's worst case [22:29:09]
  1189. <Myon> GRs never helped with anything [22:29:12]
  1190. <Ganneff> wieselTM: with SPI, not with me. [22:29:13]
  1191. <NeilMcGovern> wieselTM: Plus, SPI holds debian.org if it gets to that. [22:29:16]
  1192. <wieselTM> Ganneff: details [22:29:17]
  1193. <marga> Myon: uhm... Not true. [22:29:21]
  1194. <slef> soooo, MarcBrockschmidt is on NM team, RaphaelHertzog is on dpkg team, SteveMcIntyre was on aj's team? [22:29:26]
  1195. <NeilMcGovern> Quite an important detail :P [22:29:29]
  1196. <marga> Myon: We got DM through GR [22:29:29]
  1197. <GyrosGeier> noone respects the outcome of a GR [22:29:36]
  1198. <mjj29> also, RaphaelHertzog--. Those are delegated posts which the DPL clearly has power to replace without a GR [22:29:38]
  1199. <Myon> well, pulling the "GR" card has never really helped [22:29:39]
  1200. <slef> respect it, yes; understand it, no. [22:29:46]
  1201. <Myon> marga: which nobody really likes [22:29:49]
  1202. <moray> "Experience has shown that everybody respect the outcome of GR." hahaha [22:29:56]
  1203. <marga> Myon: uhm, nobody? [22:29:57]
  1204. <Myon> (at least the implementation) [22:30:00]
  1205. <Lo-lan-do> Nobody respects the Spanish Inquisition, either. [22:30:00]
  1206. <MarcBrockschmidt> slef: I'm also on the release team, so I'm evil and kick archs out [22:30:10]
  1207. <wieselTM> the DM GR just shows that we have a lot of idiot^Wfools^Wmistaken people who are allowed to vote [22:30:16]
  1208. <wieselTM> Lo-lan-do: that's *expects* [22:30:24]
  1209. <GyrosGeier> MarcBrockschmidt, so not voting for you will not keep m68k in? [22:30:31]
  1210. <GyrosGeier> damn. [22:30:33]
  1211. * Lo-lan-do expectorates wieselTM [22:30:33]
  1212. <slef> wieselTM: editorial changes? [22:30:43]
  1213. <Myon> HE just admitted there's a cabal [22:30:44]
  1214. * slef runs [22:30:46]
  1215. <fjp> MarcBrockschmidt: Isn't there a "don't" missing in that sentence ;-) [22:30:47]
  1216. <wieselTM> my chief weapon is surprise [22:30:49]
  1217. <fjp> +? [22:30:50]
  1218. <moray> Lo-lan-do: is that like expulsation? [22:30:54]
  1219. <Hydroxide> mjj29: I thought the core teams have said they don't consider themselves delegated by the DPL and so can't be replaced by him? [22:30:58]
  1220. <GyrosGeier> the break is a good idea [22:31:12]
  1221. <moray> Hydroxide: I think this was just a hypothesis [22:31:16]
  1222. <mjj29> Hydroxide: DAM/keyring is the _example_ in the constitution for delegates [22:31:18]
  1223. * NeilMcGovern is going to stab the next person who says expulsed. [22:31:21]
  1224. <GyrosGeier> this effing bottle is empty [22:31:21]
  1225. <seanius> oops, ECHAN [22:31:22]
  1226. <moray> Hydroxide: I don't think anyone ever *formally* argued that [22:31:29]
  1227. <marga> Myon: has any bad come through DMs ? [22:31:33]
  1228. * SteveMcIntyre throws a bottle at GyrosGeier [22:31:36]
  1229. <pusling> beers for everyone. [22:31:36]
  1230. <GyrosGeier> I thought beer was for "mediation"? [22:31:49]
  1231. <slef> NeilMcGovern: won't that get you impulsed to prison? [22:31:50]
  1232. * seanius beers [22:32:00]
  1233. <zobel> weasel: now is time for infoserv ads on #debian-dpl-debate... :) [22:32:04]
  1234. <Hydroxide> mjj29: it doesn't matter if the core teams don't agree that they're bound by that, since they predate the constitution. if moray is right that nobody has formally argued that, then I'm pleased. [22:32:04]
  1235. <broonie> NeilMcGovern: we can spend the money on an education campaign... [22:32:05]
  1236. <mjj29> "may make certain decisions which the Leader may not make directly, including approving or expelling Developers" [22:32:08]
  1237. <RaphaelHertzog> mjj29: I know but nobody has ever done that without consent and I don't feel like changing the trend, the support of the project in such a difficult decision is important IMO [22:32:08]
  1238. <wieselTM> zobel: ** weasel enabled God Mode [22:32:22]
  1239. <NeilMcGovern> heh [22:32:27]
  1240. <zobel> heh [22:32:30]
  1241. <SteveMcIntyre> :-) [22:32:36]
  1242. <mjj29> Hydroxide: they formally approved the constitution which says that [22:32:37]
  1243. <Hydroxide> mjj29: did they vote in favor of it? [22:32:44]
  1244. <mjj29> Hydroxide: doesn't matter [22:32:49]
  1245. <mjj29> Debian did [22:32:55]
  1246. <mjj29> that's the point of GRs [22:33:03]
  1247. <GyrosGeier> oh great [22:33:08]
  1248. <GyrosGeier> tyranny of the masses [22:33:15]
  1249. <mjj29> RaphaelHertzog: the TC and DPL should be more willing to exercise the power they have [22:33:15]
  1250. <RaphaelHertzog> wieselTM: heh, you have a big role to play in the next year whatever happens, that's for sure :-) [22:33:18]
  1251. <wieselTM> has anything ever been un-delegated? [22:33:21]
  1252. --- jamessan has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:33:23]
  1253. <slef> Debian is an operating system. It doesn't get happy, it doesn't get sad, it doesn't approve constitutions. It just runs programs. [22:33:30]
  1254. <Hydroxide> mjj29: again, it's a question of whether they believe it matters. but in any case, I agree with RaphaelHertzog that a GR will at least show consensus among a majority of the project, which is important for legitimacy [22:33:30]
  1255. <Ganneff> yes [22:33:31]
  1256. <MarcBrockschmidt> wieselTM: policy [22:33:32]
  1257. <wieselTM> RaphaelHertzog: I don't intent to play any roles. [22:33:34]
  1258. <broonie> wieselTM: Yes. [22:33:34]
  1259. <Hydroxide> wieselTM: yes [22:33:34]
  1260. <Ganneff> debconf delegation [22:33:39]
  1261. --- jmm has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:33:42]
  1262. <Ganneff> (idiotic, but still) [22:33:45]
  1263. <Hydroxide> Ganneff: yeah, that situation was a mess [22:33:59]
  1264. --- kaeso has quit [Quit: E quindi uscimmo a riveder le stelle] [22:34:01]
  1265. <mjj29> slef: Debian is also an organisation with 1000 or so members [22:34:02]
  1266. <RaphaelHertzog> wieselTM: well, you have a role already, DSA team member [22:34:11]
  1267. <broonie> organisation is a very strong term [22:34:13]
  1268. <mjj29> "The Debian Project" if you prefer [22:34:14]
  1269. <slef> mjj29: isn't that the debian project, formally? [22:34:15]
  1270. <MarcBrockschmidt> mjj29: Of which ~400 need to be kicked out because they are MIA [22:34:16]
  1271. <mjj29> slef: I'm lazy [22:34:20]
  1272. --- mrfrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [22:34:21]
  1273. <GyrosGeier> GRs are for recognizing formally what everyone thinks, not for enforcing "consensus" by majority [22:34:31]
  1274. <slef> mjj29: aren't we all? Sometimes it's funny to read it the other way. [22:34:44]
  1275. <fjp> Ganneff: What's happening with the mass MIA scripts? [22:34:51]
  1276. <slef> GyrosGeier: tell that to the FDL GR. [22:35:11]
  1277. <NeilMcGovern> Quite correct. The enforcing is done by the small cabals who actually care about getting shit done(tm) [22:35:12]
  1278. <Lo-lan-do> fjp: They stopped answering mails six months ago [22:35:16]
  1279. <pusling> why wieselTM got that stupid nick ? [22:35:28]
  1280. <GyrosGeier> slef, IIRC FD ended up pretty high [22:35:39]
  1281. <mjj29> GyrosGeier: either we have anarchy or dictatorship by holding important positions. Or we have some sort of governing structure [22:35:41]
  1282. <NeilMcGovern> Two clients [22:35:43]
  1283. <wieselTM> because I'm using my laptop and don't want to detach the screen weasel is using on the desktop box [22:35:50]
  1284. <slef> GyrosGeier: not high enough :/ [22:35:51]
  1285. <mjj29> which is given in the constitution [22:35:51]
  1286. <Ganneff> summary of the debate up to now: total waste of time, didnt change the position i vote anyone in. [22:35:58]
  1287. <mjj29> and says the DPL can replace delegates [22:36:01]
  1288. <mjj29> Ganneff: it made me happier with my choice [22:36:12]
  1289. <NeilMcGovern> Stop it. FD == Full Duplex for me today. You're all just confusing me :) [22:36:14]
  1290. <slef> Floppy Disk [22:36:29]
  1291. <Womble2> file descriptor [22:36:36]
  1292. <broonie> Whereas we all know the Debian FD is half duplex. [22:36:39]
  1293. <Myon> field day [22:36:42]
  1294. <Ganneff> front desk [22:36:44]
  1295. <GyrosGeier> mjj29, my point is that if we start holding a GR as soon as one side hopes that they will get enough votes, rather than discussing the remaining issues, we end up with half-baked solutions [22:36:51]
  1296. <RaphaelHertzog> sam: has anyone contacted you to replace/fix the press team? [22:36:54]
  1297. <slef> Ganneff: has a debate ever changed your vote much? [22:37:11]
  1298. --- Curan has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] [22:37:11]
  1299. <mjj29> GyrosGeier: I don't disagree [22:37:20]
  1300. <mjj29> GyrosGeier: my point is that we shouldn't hold GRs for things which we have already decided where the authority lies [22:37:33]
  1301. <sam> RaphaelHertzog: no [22:37:34]
  1302. <Ganneff> slef: when we had more people running one could sort them better. [22:37:40]
  1303. <zobel> slef: at least it hardens my opinon on whom to place above NOTA. [22:37:51]
  1304. <GyrosGeier> NeilMcGovern, II hhaaiill ouourr F FDD oovveerrlloorrdds.s. [22:37:54]
  1305. <Ganneff> but today people showed why they get below nota or same or above. [22:37:59]
  1306. <mjj29> those who have been elected or appointed to positions of authority should just exercise that authority [22:38:04]
  1307. <seanius> fuzzy dice? [22:38:08]
  1308. --- aj has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [22:38:12]
  1309. <slef> Ganneff: true. I mostly used it to split ties until this year... this year, I think 2 are hard to split. [22:38:24]
  1310. <wieselTM> use a sharper axe [22:38:52]
  1311. <GyrosGeier> and I really should have run. [22:39:11]
  1312. <sbex_> doing all this live for 2 hours is quite some stress test [22:39:20]
  1313. <Ganneff> some answers clearly showed that the one talking didnt even understand the question. or doesnt know how the stuff in the background works at all, despite claiming he knows stuff. so made the "yay, nota above you" better, but nothing more. [22:39:22]
  1314. <slef> GyrosGeier++ [22:40:13]
  1315. <slef> It's sort of creepy when a candidate starts playing along with -discuss jokes in the main -debate. Stop it. ;-) [22:41:00]
  1316. <zobel> QUESTION: censorship on lists.d.o is a question which comes up more often since one active DD was banned from lists. how is your opinon there, and how should listmaster handle that? [22:41:17]
  1317. --- wurmt has quit [Quit: Leaving] [22:41:26]
  1318. <slef> zobel: forwarded [22:41:32]
  1319. --- milosh has quit [Quit: Leaving] [22:42:03]
  1320. --- popey has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [22:42:07]
  1321. <slef> hi popey [22:42:12]
  1322. <popey> hi mj [22:42:19]
  1323. --- abrotman has quit [Quit: Leaving] [22:42:32]
  1324. * wieselTM is not going to ask the candidates what they think of Joy's team proposal [22:42:39]
  1325. <mjj29> dammit, can people stop using the 'word' "expulsing" [22:42:47]
  1326. <slef> NeilMcGovern: MarcBrockschmidt is your victim Go! Go! Go! [22:42:48]
  1327. * NeilMcGovern stabs MarcBrockschmidt [22:42:50]
  1328. <mjj29> it's bad enough when sven uses it [22:42:52]
  1329. <broonie> AARGH. No way I'm voting for someone who uses the term "expulsing" [22:42:57]
  1330. <NeilMcGovern> IT'S FUCKING EXPELLED. [22:43:05]
  1331. * slef roflmaos [22:43:11]
  1332. <Ganneff> mjj29: its my word, i made that [22:43:13]
  1333. <SteveMcIntyre> *grin* [22:43:13]
  1334. <MarcBrockschmidt> Hey, I used double quotes, for fsck's sake [22:43:14]
  1335. <Myon> expulsify [22:43:15]
  1336. <marga> you british elitist [22:43:16]
  1337. <psn_> even in a sarcastic way? [22:43:16]
  1338. <broonie> marga: No, really. [22:43:23]
  1339. <Ganneff> its a perfect valid word in en_GANNEFF! [22:43:32]
  1340. <Zugschlu5> non-native speakers discrimination? [22:43:33]
  1341. <Myon> thrust [22:43:34]
  1342. * NeilMcGovern has a spamassassin rule for /expuls/ [22:43:43]
  1343. <wieselTM> NeilMcGovern: be careful or we will expelse you also [22:43:44]
  1344. <marga> broonie: I know, but for all of us ESLs, expulsed sounds ... normal [22:43:45]
  1345. <moray> broonie: it came from the French, where the equivalent *is* the correct term [22:43:48]
  1346. <slef> Zugschlu5: everyone's a native speaker of something. [22:43:54]
  1347. <broonie> moray: I know. [22:43:57]
  1348. * Myon expellifies wieselTM [22:44:10]
  1349. <moray> MarcBrockschmidt has no excuse obviously [22:44:13]
  1350. <slef> marga: English is abnormal. [22:44:15]
  1351. <moray> (as he's not French/Spanish/whatever) [22:44:25]
  1352. <fjp> QUESTION: Several architectures have had structural problems keeping up for the past 6 months or so. Do you think that more could have been done to get them working again? [22:44:38]
  1353. <slef> fjp: forwarded [22:44:51]
  1354. <wieselTM> moray: oh you just love the germans [22:44:57]
  1355. <NeilMcGovern> to expel (third-person singular simple present expels or expelleth, present participle expelling, simple past and past participle expelled) [22:44:58]
  1356. <wieselTM> Once all the Germans were warlike and mean, [22:44:59]
  1357. <wieselTM> But that couldn't happen again. [22:44:59]
  1358. <wieselTM> We taught them a lesson in nineteen eighteen, [22:44:59]
  1359. <Myon> fwiw, http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=expulse [22:45:00]
  1360. <wieselTM> And they've hardly bothered us since then. [22:45:00]
  1361. <wieselTM> tom lehrer++ [22:45:03]
  1362. <NeilMcGovern> NO EXPULSED [22:45:06]
  1363. <Myon> Inflected Form(s): [22:45:21]
  1364. <Myon> ex·pulsed; ex·puls·ing [22:45:22]
  1365. <slef> NeilMcGovern: Comment expulser le franglais? [22:45:42]
  1366. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: its a nice and fine word in en_GANNEFF, deal with it! :) [22:45:49]
  1367. <wieselTM> yes, get rid of the french [22:45:53]
  1368. <wieselTM> all of them [22:45:54]
  1369. <broonie> Ganneff: How many other speakers of that language are there? :) [22:46:06]
  1370. <Ganneff> broonie: im not enough? [22:46:16]
  1371. <bzed> broonie: at least one more who understands EN_G [22:46:19]
  1372. <wieselTM> broonie: hard to tell, but their mass amounts to at least half of debian's total [22:46:29]
  1373. <NeilMcGovern> Ganneff: I translate away from en_GANNEFF :) [22:46:32]
  1374. <Lo-lan-do> Isn't en_aba quite close to en_Ganneff? [22:46:43]
  1375. <wieselTM> different dialect [22:46:49]
  1376. <marga> :) [22:47:01]
  1377. <Ganneff> nothing is as good a my en_GANNEFF! [22:47:08]
  1378. <bzed> and REJECT U FAIL is not part of en_aba [22:47:14]
  1379. <marga> I thought that the discussion over here was supposed to be related to was talked on the channel? [22:47:19]
  1380. * slef tries to remember whether debian uses eo_XX or eo_AQ [22:47:23]
  1381. <mjj29> Myon: the OED gives it as obsolete [22:47:23]
  1382. <GyrosGeier> dammit [22:47:27]
  1383. <GyrosGeier> we lost count [22:47:30]
  1384. <fjp> MarcBrockschmidt: Isn't it? [22:47:38]
  1385. <wieselTM> *cough* [22:47:39]
  1386. * Ganneff hopes this time waste is over soon. wanna do some rejects before i go to bed [22:47:42]
  1387. <wieselTM> "excellent"!? [22:47:43]
  1388. <sbex_> marga: you topic elitist :-p [22:47:49]
  1389. <wieselTM> that proposal is stupid [22:47:50]
  1390. <fjp> Eh, marga [22:48:00]
  1391. <MarcBrockschmidt> wieselTM: It solves an actual problem. I guess that's a first for a GR [22:48:05]
  1392. <GyrosGeier> Ganneff, should I upload something? [22:48:09]
  1393. <mjj29> all the posts in Debian should be under the authority of either the DPL or the TC [22:48:13]
  1394. <mjj29> whatever long standing teams think [22:48:22]
  1395. <Ganneff> GyrosGeier: should i reject it? [22:48:29]
  1396. <MarcBrockschmidt> mjj29: Exactly my opinion [22:48:35]
  1397. <MarcBrockschmidt> mjj29: Currently, we have people who feel that there is no authority they have to answer to [22:48:49]
  1398. <slef> mjj29: I await your constitutional amendment GR and firey bath. [22:48:53]
  1399. <Myon> post == delegate? [22:48:58]
  1400. <GyrosGeier> Ganneff, well, I have nothing ready that will work, so anything I could upload would need to be rejected [22:49:00]
  1401. <mjj29> Myon: team/delegate/packager/anything [22:49:10]
  1402. <slef> Myon: don't be silly. Have you ever heard of a gate delegate? [22:49:14]
  1403. <Womble2> Ganneff: I can upload a VMware image of Windows if you like [22:49:31]
  1404. <mjj29> slef: personally, I think the constitution is perfectly clear [22:49:31]
  1405. <mjj29> and they are all delegates [22:49:35]
  1406. <Ganneff> Womble2: suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. [22:49:40]
  1407. <Ganneff> Womble2: you wont be larger than OOo uploads [22:49:57]
  1408. <wieselTM> Womble2: it can [22:50:01]
  1409. <wieselTM> damn [22:50:01]
  1410. <GyrosGeier> does the buildd question count as elmo slapping? [22:50:01]
  1411. <marga> I want to ask a question about Ubuntu, but I'm not sure about what to ask exactly. [22:50:02]
  1412. <wieselTM> i was about to say that, GyrosGeier [22:50:05]
  1413. <wieselTM> s/Gyros/Ganneff/ [22:50:09]
  1414. <Myon> you don't seriously want packagers to be DPL delegates [22:50:15]
  1415. <slef> Womble2: upload a hand-coded deb file that expands too large... [22:50:26]
  1416. <marga> Basically, it would be why the hell haven't we replaced elmo, if he works full-time for Ubuntu and no-time for Debian, I think. [22:50:34]
  1417. <wieselTM> 42.zip [22:50:34]
  1418. <slef> Womble2: no-one expects 99% compression [22:50:38]
  1419. <GyrosGeier> wasn't there an OOo-dbg package that broke CD building because it wouldn't fit on a CD, and confused the scripts? [22:50:44]
  1420. <broonie> marga: He is doing stuff in Debian still. [22:50:59]
  1421. <marga> broonie: I know, but... [22:51:13]
  1422. <broonie> (not the things people seem most keen for him to do, but well) [22:51:14]
  1423. <sbex_> marga: quite a few *buntoo related topics were covered before you joined [22:51:30]
  1424. <broonie> sbex_: here, but not so much over in the actual debate? [22:52:06]
  1425. <sbex_> broonie: they were more "expanded" in here, true [22:52:23]
  1426. <mjj29> ISTR there not being problems with hardware [22:52:27]
  1427. <marga> sbex_: I read the backlog for -debate [22:52:43]
  1428. <mjj29> but with DSA et all adding them to the buildd rotations [22:52:45]
  1429. <marga> I know they were "covered" [22:52:52]
  1430. <wieselTM> DSA don't do buildds. [22:52:53]
  1431. <marga> I just want ACTION [22:52:56]
  1432. <wieselTM> buildd people do buildds. [22:53:00]
  1433. <sbex_> oh [22:53:00]
  1434. <mjj29> wieselTM: or whoever, I can never remember quite who runs them [22:53:08]
  1435. <slef> wieselTM: but if they did, they'd probably be the best buildds in the world. [22:53:12]
  1436. <wieselTM> slef: no doubt about that [22:53:19]
  1437. <wieselTM> no doubt at all! [22:53:21]
  1438. <Womble2> Much the same people with different hats, I thought [22:53:28]
  1439. <moray> pointy ones [22:53:35]
  1440. <GyrosGeier> wieselTM, only DSA managed buildds can be official [22:53:38]
  1441. <Ganneff> err, wrong. [22:53:47]
  1442. <wieselTM> DSA doesn't manage /buildds/ [22:53:48]
  1443. <slef> blood on the arches [22:53:52]
  1444. <GyrosGeier> wieselTM, and only official buildds can talk to wanna-build [22:53:55]
  1445. <moray> isn't all this talk of fresh blood a bit vampirish? [22:53:56]
  1446. <GyrosGeier> wieselTM, they manage machines, on which people run buildds [22:54:14]
  1447. <wieselTM> we manage the system of /some/ of the buildds. but the buildd is run by somebody, not DSA. [22:54:22]
  1448. <slef> moray: do you have a problem with vampires? [22:54:22]
  1449. <wieselTM> some of those somebodies are elmo and neuro, but not all. [22:54:36]
  1450. <sbex_> fresh blood would take about 10 years to be able to get into DSA? [22:54:51]
  1451. <wieselTM> and there are systems that run buildds that are not under DSA at all [22:54:52]
  1452. <moray> slef: I'm just scared by the thought of Steve hovering over people in their sleep looking for fresh blood [22:54:52]
  1453. <GyrosGeier> wieselTM, the question is how to get new buildds running without getting your upload rights removed [22:54:55]
  1454. <mjj29> anyway, I once mentioned I might be able to arrange buildd hosting and was told 'hosting and machines aren't a problem, we have lots of offers, but noone taking them up' [22:55:02]
  1455. <Lo-lan-do> How long till the end of the debate? [22:55:03]
  1456. <wieselTM> GyrosGeier: talk to the buildd people, whoever they are. [22:55:08]
  1457. <broonie> moray: Thanks for that image [22:55:09]
  1458. <wieselTM> GyrosGeier: it's not DSA's mandate [22:55:13]
  1459. <slef> 36 minutes [22:55:14]
  1460. --- andreasj has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Verlassend] [22:55:19]
  1461. <GyrosGeier> wieselTM, that'd be elmo then [22:55:22]
  1462. <wieselTM> sbex_: who are you? [22:55:24]
  1463. <wieselTM> GyrosGeier: could be [22:55:30]
  1464. <sbex_> wieselTM: yes :) [22:55:36]
  1465. * wieselTM refrains from sinking to such low a level as a reply would require [22:56:11]
  1466. <mjj29> ooi, do those w.d.o/news items ever hit a mailing list? [22:56:35]
  1467. <sbex_> wieselTM: whatever you want to do, please wait for about 30-40 minutes [22:56:37]
  1468. <Myon> sbex_: consider EODing [22:56:52]
  1469. <slef> mjj29: I think I've seen some of them on d-d-a. [22:56:56]
  1470. * wieselTM bets a beer that sbex_ is paddy [22:57:02]
  1471. <slef> mjj29: now, if you can predict their next issue and edit the wiki at the right time in a subtle enough way... [22:57:18]
  1472. <moray> wieselTM: and Mike Bird and Walther, sitting round a computer [22:57:38]
  1473. <wieselTM> I knew it [22:57:47]
  1474. <slef> wieselTM: did the beer shake on the bet? [22:57:50]
  1475. <wieselTM> krooger too [22:57:50]
  1476. <Lo-lan-do> krooger is Walther, no? [22:58:04]
  1477. <Ganneff> yes [22:58:08]
  1478. <sbex_> and everybody else you need to blame :) [22:58:14]
  1479. <wieselTM> Lo-lan-do: sshhhh [22:58:15]
  1480. <Lo-lan-do> Sven? [22:58:26]
  1481. <sbex_> he is here also :) [22:58:33]
  1482. <moray> Sven's refilling the shot glasses [22:58:46]
  1483. * slef realises he's changed his phone number since krooger last called [22:58:49]
  1484. <sbex_> but clearly the moment marga asked for action some old school buddies had to cook up old trouble :) [22:59:46]
  1485. <slef> is "the DPL authority" a euphemism? [22:59:59]
  1486. <marga> sbex_: ? [23:00:12]
  1487. <Lo-lan-do> I'd say an exaggeration, rather. [23:00:13]
  1488. <sbex_> marga: [23:53] <marga> I just want ACTION | [23:55] <wieselTM> sbex_: who are you? [23:00:46]
  1489. * wieselTM has a headache [23:00:47]
  1490. <slef> Do you think the French revolution succeeded? // It's too early to tell. [23:00:59]
  1491. * wieselTM disagrees [23:01:53]
  1492. <Ganneff> nm is way to short. and way to easy [23:01:58]
  1493. --- FelipeSouza has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:01:58]
  1494. <wieselTM> agrees. [23:02:02]
  1495. --- Lash| has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] [23:02:03]
  1496. <Lo-lan-do> QUESTION: Will you remove DM if the DAM problem is fixed? [23:02:07]
  1497. <wieselTM> you want to remove the DAM team? [23:02:19]
  1498. <slef> Lo-lan-do: forwarded [23:02:22]
  1499. <slef> Ganneff: too variable-length and too easy [23:02:38]
  1500. <mjj29> Ganneff: dm more so [23:02:39]
  1501. --- spinclad has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:02:43]
  1502. <Ganneff> current dm is bullshit, yes. [23:03:02]
  1503. <mjj29> Ganneff: would you be happy to see DM reworked as a sort of 'probationary' step? [23:03:07]
  1504. <wieselTM> I could see the sense in that [23:03:21]
  1505. --- naegae has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:03:28]
  1506. <Ganneff> maybe. [23:03:32]
  1507. <mjj29> or, alternatively, more emphasis put on not a longer NM, but more contribution prior to NM [23:03:39]
  1508. <GyrosGeier> current DM works fine [23:03:42]
  1509. * broonie always expected to see it integrated more into NM (like sponsorship) in the long run [23:03:49]
  1510. <mjj29> GyrosGeier: s'laughably easy to get in [23:03:54]
  1511. <GyrosGeier> well [23:04:02]
  1512. <wieselTM> every twit can get upload rights [23:04:07]
  1513. <wieselTM> and some of them do [23:04:13]
  1514. <Ganneff> current DM only helps to get quality of debian down. [23:04:17]
  1515. --- lunatic has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:04:28]
  1516. --- Atomo64 has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:04:44]
  1517. <marga> Isn't that because of certain maintainer... [23:04:46]
  1518. <GyrosGeier> Ganneff, yup [23:04:46]
  1519. <slef> Ganneff: I think it helps us to keep volunteers who are stuck in NM not doing anything [23:04:56]
  1520. <marga> (I mean the dm-keyring maint) [23:05:06]
  1521. <Myon> we also have a bunch of bad sponsors [23:05:08]
  1522. <GyrosGeier> Ganneff, but DM is useful nonetheless, because we can circumvent DAM this way [23:05:09]
  1523. * broonie notes that in some industries things like PCI (the banking version) are going to be hard for us to deal with as Debian. [23:05:23]
  1524. <Myon> (the sets are not disjoint) [23:05:25]
  1525. <GyrosGeier> well [23:05:47]
  1526. <slef> broonie: care to write more on that on planet.debian some day? [23:05:56]
  1527. <Ganneff> broonie: pci is the security audit stuff, right? [23:06:12]
  1528. <broonie> Ganneff: AIUI, yes. [23:06:18]
  1529. <slef> Payment Card Industry [23:06:21]
  1530. <Myon> MarcBrockschmidt: there you have your ad break ;) [23:06:26]
  1531. <broonie> slef: I don't have first-hand knowledge. [23:06:30]
  1532. <slef> most often PCIDSS where DSS = Data Security Standard or Spec I forget which [23:06:37]
  1533. --- gravity has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:06:42]
  1534. <slef> broonie: oh, it sounded like you had some insight [23:06:53]
  1535. <broonie> slef: But one of my friends is currently migrating off Debian for (partly) that reason. [23:07:10]
  1536. <slef> broonie: and for planet.d.o, sounding like it is half the challenge [23:07:19]
  1537. <Ganneff> well. lufthansa internal security stuff loves (and follows) debian and its development... [23:07:21]
  1538. <broonie> Ganneff: Half the issue they were having is that the auditors have a checklist of current fixed versions [23:07:49]
  1539. <mjj29> broonie: I think the only solution with that is some large company deciding to pay for evaluations of Debian for us [23:07:51]
  1540. --- helmut has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [23:07:52]
  1541. --- sbex_ has quit [autokilled: Evading K-Lines. Mail support@oftc.net if you think this in error. (2008-03-26 23:07:54)] [23:07:54]
  1542. <mjj29> because they want to use it [23:07:57]
  1543. <broonie> Ganneff: Plus an exceptin list for RHEL. [23:08:05]
  1544. <slef> broonie: smells like a scapegoat to me, but I don't know the detail of what they were doing [23:08:07]
  1545. <mjj29> sadly, I think it then goes out the window the moment we update a package [23:08:10]
  1546. <marga> sbex_ was actually sven? [23:08:20]
  1547. <Myon> no, paddy [23:08:26]
  1548. --- FelipeSouza has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Konversation terminated!] [23:08:27]
  1549. <slef> marga: sven's on wannadoo IIRC [23:08:38]
  1550. <broonie> slef: Like I said, it was one of the reasons (not the only one). [23:08:38]
  1551. <Ganneff> broonie: hehe. our internal security guys love debian as "its secure and good supported". and they mailed us about our debian systems and our upgrade plans when sarge deadline was announced... [23:08:43]
  1552. <Ganneff> sven doesnt get klines [23:08:55]
  1553. <Ganneff> sven is no network problem [23:09:01]
  1554. <broonie> Ganneff: Yeah. I was kind of forced onto Ubuntu for a work machine and they already cocked up a security update for mailman (universe, but still) [23:09:42]
  1555. <gravity> Did I miss anything good so far in the debate? [23:09:52]
  1556. <wieselTM> universe is the worst about ubunut [23:09:56]
  1557. <Ganneff> no. [23:09:56]
  1558. <zobel> don_armstrong: becoming release team member, squash a bug each day? [23:09:58]
  1559. <gravity> It seems to be less eventful than in past years [23:10:02]
  1560. <marga> gravity: the candidates are kinda uniform [23:10:16]
  1561. <slef> anyone really really want to see their question asked that hasn't been yet? [23:10:17]
  1562. <fjp> gravity: It's not considered to be a problem :-) [23:10:20]
  1563. --- linuX|Reneger has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] [23:10:37]
  1564. <Womble2> Sledge: Dunc-Tank 2, obv. [23:10:41]
  1565. <wieselTM> slef: na, bring it to an end, please :) [23:10:41]
  1566. <gravity> fjp: Agreed :-) [23:10:46]
  1567. <gravity> marga: Hrm I need to catch up on -vote I guess. I haven't even read any platforms yet. [23:10:59]
  1568. <wieselTM> I don't expect to read them this year [23:11:14]
  1569. <slef> wieselTM: It's time for pin the tail on the ballot [23:11:33]
  1570. <wieselTM> hm? [23:11:51]
  1571. <NeilMcGovern> QUESTION: How many RC bugs will you fix a week between now and release? [23:11:59]
  1572. <broonie> wieselTM: vote at random [23:12:00]
  1573. * NeilMcGovern hides :) [23:12:03]
  1574. <wieselTM> na, not at random [23:12:16]
  1575. <slef> NeilMcGovern: forwarded [23:12:19]
  1576. <NeilMcGovern> slef: bitch :) [23:12:23]
  1577. <wieselTM> I just don't think the platforms tell me anything I don't already know [23:12:27]
  1578. <marga> I'll vote whoever assures me ACTION [23:12:28]
  1579. <SteveMcIntyre> marga: ooh, saucy :-) [23:12:36]
  1580. <Ganneff> action, bombs, explosions, blood! [23:12:46]
  1581. <gravity> I'll vote for whoever assures me free beer [23:12:48]
  1582. <slef> marga: ACTION is just a PRIVMSG with ^As IIRC [23:12:54]
  1583. <marga> slef: :) [23:13:02]
  1584. <zobel> bad Ganneff [23:13:16]
  1585. <marga> With "ACTION" I mean _actively remove_ the bottlenecks in Debian and not just "talk" about them. [23:13:20]
  1586. <luk_> MarcBrockschmidt: I do think that we lack people to communicate about the release and with teams/maintainers/press etc, which is not technical and something the DPL could maybe help... [23:13:25]
  1587. <Ganneff> zobel: marga is the bomb girl, not me! [23:13:27]
  1588. <slef> marga: JFDI? [23:13:33]
  1589. <marga> slef: ? [23:13:46]
  1590. <wieselTM> we don't need to *remove* people [23:13:48]
  1591. <wieselTM> we just need to *add* people who do the job [23:13:53]
  1592. <slef> marga: sort of hard to test for consensus without discussion though [23:13:58]
  1593. <slef> marga: but need to start the discussion early to get things done [23:14:10]
  1594. <slef> and drive it a little [23:14:16]
  1595. <Atomo64> QUESTION for those supporting dpl teams and similar kind of groups: do they think it is better to let the dpl form a group during his term, or better make those positions permanent in the constitution [23:14:34]
  1596. --- mattbnz has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [23:14:44]
  1597. <slef> Atomo64: I think that's a bit late but will forward [23:14:48]
  1598. <marga> slef: I wave no idea waht JFDI stands for, so I can't follow your two other statements. [23:14:52]
  1599. * GyrosGeier thinks of watching another episode of The Heist, and hopes he won't get elected in his absence [23:14:54]
  1600. --- QUESTION has quit [Quit: no more questions please] [23:14:57]
  1601. <SteveMcIntyre> marga: just <> do it [23:15:04]
  1602. <slef> Atomo64: might be better off asking candidates if they come in here later [23:15:15]
  1603. <wieselTM> SteveMcIntyre: finally [23:15:15]
  1604. <marga> ah, ok. [23:15:16]
  1605. <slef> marga: see SteveMcIntyre [23:15:20]
  1606. <spinclad> JFDI: Just F Do It [23:15:22]
  1607. <Atomo64> slef: ok, thanks; silly me, I tough the debate was on saturday [23:15:26]
  1608. <gravity> "just <> do it". Is that perl? [23:15:33]
  1609. * GyrosGeier liked the last question [23:15:38]
  1610. <slef> Atomo64: you should read my blog ;-) [23:15:43]
  1611. <marga> slef: I'm tired of waiting for consensus. [23:15:57]
  1612. * Ganneff killed the QUESTIONS client, hopefully we are done :) [23:16:02]
  1613. <slef> Ganneff: thanks for that [23:16:09]
  1614. <MarcBrockschmidt> luk_: Hey, you are the release manager, so get people to help .) [23:16:12]
  1615. <slef> marga: don't *wait* for it. Build it. [23:16:20]
  1616. <Myon> come to our BSP! [23:16:26]
  1617. <gravity> I'd actually like to see less globe trotting from the DPL myself. I don't know how valuable that's been for the project. [23:16:32]
  1618. <marga> slef: build it? [23:16:42]
  1619. <Atomo64> slef: I do, by reading planet; which is something I usually do after working on some stuff [23:16:45]
  1620. <slef> gravity: well, we've this nice hole in the ozone layer... [23:16:49]
  1621. * slef confuddles topics [23:16:59]
  1622. <marga> slef: I actually want to destroy it :) [23:16:59]
  1623. <psn_> slef: thanks for the blog post, btw. [23:17:07]
  1624. <GyrosGeier> oh lahwd [23:17:12]
  1625. <GyrosGeier> the last two minutes really sums it up nicely [23:17:31]
  1626. <luk_> anyone interested in helping the release by handling part of the communication, please do contact me [23:17:33]
  1627. --- LightKnight has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:17:35]
  1628. <slef> psn_: wow, I'm not hidden from all then ;-) [23:17:38]
  1629. <gravity> Heh, a tame election must mean that the project is humming along way more nicely than in the past. [23:17:39]
  1630. <gravity> Less need to FIX EVERYTHING ZOMG [23:18:03]
  1631. <NeilMcGovern> Anyone interested in helping the release team by fixing RC bugs, please don't contact me and just go bloody do it. [23:18:05]
  1632. <luk_> lol [23:18:18]
  1633. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: how can we help the release team? please tell us. [23:18:24]
  1634. <slef> Guests, /msg NeilMcGovern your name for the record [23:18:35]
  1635. <slef> (no don't [23:18:38]
  1636. * slef runs [23:18:42]
  1637. <h01ger> Neil! [23:18:46]
  1638. <NeilMcGovern> Ganneff: fix bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ [23:18:48]
  1639. <jamessan> does removing that page count as fixing it? ;) [23:19:02]
  1640. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: i dont like that. tell us something simpler. [23:19:04]
  1641. <luk_> NeilMcGovern: how would fixing a webpage help? [23:19:11]
  1642. * slef tries to go mobile [23:19:18]
  1643. <MarcBrockschmidt> Ganneff: NMU the packages blocking the python2.5 and perl5.10 transitions [23:19:22]
  1644. <NeilMcGovern> fix the bugs listed at above. [23:19:25]
  1645. <Myon> I think we just found a DPL/2IC team [23:19:25]
  1646. <moray> maybe some nice pink CSS [23:19:26]
  1647. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: i dont like that. tell us something simpler. [23:19:27]
  1648. <slef> curl -s bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ | tidy -e [23:19:28]
  1649. <Atomo64> what about tightening the rc policy of lenny+1? getting less packages in the release could drop a little the bandwidth, disk space, BTS, etc,etc,etc,etc usage :D [23:19:37]
  1650. <NeilMcGovern> Ganneff: send us details on how to do the migration yaml file [23:19:55]
  1651. <Myon> don_armstrong: thanks to you as well, good job [23:20:13]
  1652. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: after aj finally applied the last bits of my patch and asked dsa for the right sudo lines, so you can actually use it [23:20:17]
  1653. <marga> Thanks to everyone [23:20:22]
  1654. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: the mail and stuff is prepared. [23:20:23]
  1655. <NeilMcGovern> Ganneff: \o/ [23:20:27]
  1656. <NeilMcGovern> Ganneff++ [23:20:29]
  1657. <NeilMcGovern> and aj, and weasel [23:20:34]
  1658. <Ganneff> huh? [23:20:45]
  1659. <NeilMcGovern> for applying the patch, and adding the sudo lines I assume [23:20:56]
  1660. <pusling> Myon: german dude and english-man ? [23:21:05]
  1661. --- jamessan has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [23:21:05]
  1662. --- gigio has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [23:21:13]
  1663. <Myon> pusling: about that, yes ;) [23:21:21]
  1664. <Ganneff> NeilMcGovern: nothing added yet. as a debadmin needs to ask for it. [23:21:22]
  1665. * moray backs away from -debate [23:21:27]
  1666. <Ganneff> i have no say about that dak user or sudo rights for it. [23:21:39]
  1667. <slef> greetings from the sofa [23:21:42]
  1668. * Ganneff kills SteveMcIntyre [23:22:21]
  1669. <SteveMcIntyre> \o/ [23:22:29]
  1670. --- lightsey has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [23:22:34]
  1671. --- SteveMcIntyre is now known as Sledge [23:22:41]
  1672. --- Lo-lan-do has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [23:22:45]
  1673. * h01ger hugs. nevermind. [23:22:46]
  1674. <Sledge> and lo, I am reborn [23:22:51]
  1675. --- NeilMcGovern is now known as Maulkin [23:22:56]
  1676. * Ganneff kills SteveMcIntyre [23:22:56]
  1677. --- don_armstrong is now known as dondelelcaro [23:22:57]
  1678. * Ganneff kills Sledge [23:23:00]
  1679. <Ganneff> die, damnit [23:23:02]
  1680. * slef gets on with the log formatting [23:23:02]
  1681. --- Myon has left #debian-dpl-discuss [cu] [23:23:05]
  1682. --- RaphaelHertzog is now known as buxy [23:23:16]
  1683. <Sledge> ttfn folks, gotta run for a bit [23:23:20]
  1684. --- jaldhar has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+ssfe] [23:23:29]
  1685. <Ganneff> Maulkin: want that channel what? [23:23:44]
  1686. --- mhy has left #debian-dpl-discuss [(null)] [23:24:01]
  1687. <Maulkin> Ganneff: /kick everyone basically [23:24:04]
  1688. --- neuro has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [23:24:10]
  1689. <Ganneff> no. what for? [23:24:11]
  1690. --- h01ger has left #debian-dpl-discuss [Leaving] [23:24:11]
  1691. <GyrosGeier> party over in #debian-dpl-cabal [23:24:17]
  1692. --- MarcBrockschmidt has quit [Quit: Still available as HE, just ping me] [23:24:19]
  1693. <Ganneff> its +m and will clean itself over time. [23:24:21]
  1694. <GyrosGeier> Ops for everyone! [23:24:25]
  1695. <Ganneff> no need to do something that noisy [23:24:33]
  1696. --- jmm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [23:24:44]
  1697. --- lindi- has joined #debian-dpl-discuss [23:24:46]