1. --- IRC log started on Mon Jun 20 18:01:36 2005
  2. <stockholm> dont we have 17:00 UTC now?
  3. <nchip> yeah
  4. <Q-FUNK> 17:05
  5. <h01ger> hi - excuse me, was outside..
  6. <h01ger> did everybody read http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5TechMeetingAgenda ?
  7. <h01ger> maybe we should wait til 17.30 UTC so mooch is here as well ? without mooch and liiwi its much less usefull...
  8. <h01ger> nchip, ok, thanks. will keep that (both) in mind..
  9. <liiwi> hrm
  10. <h01ger> stockholm, http://layer-acht.org/fai-files/
  11. <h01ger> ah, hi liiwi, /me had difficulties parsing "oh fuck" of yours :)
  12. <h01ger> or we could start with the list of machines. mooch is not that involved in it and will happily take the results i guess ;)
  13. <stockholm> i have one machine for sure
  14. <h01ger> stockholm, which one ?
  15. <liiwi> got caught with work, and thought it would take all evening
  16. <Q-FUNK> N D1D2N ND3DpDm
  17. <Q-FUNK> oops
  18. <stockholm> a dual opteron server
  19. <stockholm> 2Gig RAM
  20. --- h01ger has changed the topic on channel #debconf-team to "techmeeting - list of machines - also see http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5TechMeetingAgenda
  21. <liiwi> vendor?
  22. <stockholm> 226G HD
  23. <stockholm> liiwi: damicron
  24. <stockholm> it runs comas and postgresql for now
  25. <liiwi> running already?
  26. <stockholm> we can put all other server tasks (like ldap dhcp etc) on it
  27. <stockholm> yes at comas.l-a.fi
  28. <liiwi> col
  29. <Q-FUNK> someone should invite ekix to this channel
  30. <liiwi> +o
  31. <stockholm> we *will* have that machine at debconf location
  32. <nchip> I have a 266Mhz ppc/250GB HD/gige embedded device running debian I can bring
  33. <stockholm> are we talking servers?
  34. <h01ger> stockholm, sponsored by damicron as well ?
  35. <stockholm> nchip: as a storage server?
  36. <Q-FUNK> damicon
  37. <stockholm> h01ger: proposed what?
  38. <nchip> stockholm: that's basicly the only thing it would be usefull for
  39. <stockholm> that it goes to the debconf location? yes
  40. <stockholm> nchip: i imagine it can do that just fine.
  41. <Q-FUNK> nchip: or a ppc pbuilder host.
  42. <h01ger> stockholm, ? my question was/is if that server is sponsored by damicron ?
  43. <stockholm> h01ger: oh, sorry. yes, it is
  44. <stockholm> it is sponsored.
  45. <stockholm> then there are two servers from HP, with 4cpus i think. unconfirmed.
  46. <stockholm> xeon and amd64
  47. <liiwi> how much disk?
  48. <h01ger> stockholm, for the damicron server, i would also want to know the location at HUT (we can of course talk about that later, when mooch is here)
  49. <stockholm> liiwi: unknown at present.
  50. <stockholm> i have been hunting the contact person, no luck
  51. <liiwi> h01ger: basement, damicon
  52. <stockholm> the whole location discussion... (c: i will keep out of that.
  53. * liiwi locks stockholm to the basement
  54. <stockholm> liiwi: (c:
  55. <h01ger> i'm taking notes at http://www.layer-acht.org/fai/fai-at-debconf5/ (at the botton)
  56. <nchip> Well, we have the whole camp week to find out if the basement is too hot or not :)
  57. <liiwi> so, we'll have at least three hefty boxes, and the big disk array for video is still needed
  58. <h01ger> though i might switch to paper (faster) sometime...
  59. <h01ger> liiwi, basement of the dorms ? which basement...
  60. <stockholm> can we store the raw data off-site?
  61. <stockholm> in umea, for example?
  62. <h01ger> umea ?
  63. <liiwi> umeAY
  64. <stockholm> maswan might have some capacity. he will be there (at debconf) too
  65. <stockholm> he is admin there
  66. <stockholm> and the network between the two unis is properly developed, i guess
  67. <liiwi> h01ger: one of the basement rooms at dorms, yes.
  68. <stockholm> just an idea
  69. <liiwi> nordunet is at least 2.5Gbit/s
  70. <stockholm> h01ger: there are two dotted rooms in the cellar drawing. one of those
  71. <liiwi> if not faster these days
  72. <Q-FUNK> atera is also an admin at the CSC. he canprobably help wit that.
  73. <liiwi> stockholm: I take it that someone has confirmed that we can use those rooms? :)
  74. <h01ger> stockholm, in each dorm building ;)
  75. <stockholm> liiwi: mooch thought we could use them too but asked again, i think
  76. <h01ger> liiwi, nordunet is 2.5gbit/s - does that mean 2.5gbit/s between the dorm buildings and smoekki and csd ?
  77. <liiwi> h01ger: no, uni to uni, inside the uni things may drop down to 100mbit.
  78. <stockholm> h01ger: nordunet is something like winshuttle in germany
  79. <stockholm> liiwi: we still dont know the bandwidths we have between places, do we?
  80. <liiwi> http://www.nordu.net/stat-q/load-map/ndn-map,,traffic,busy
  81. <liiwi> stockholm: correct
  82. <stockholm> liiwi: am i correct when assuming that the person at HUT is the blocker?
  83. --- hrobak (~herman@pat.opera.com) has joined channel #debconf-team
  84. <h01ger> liiwi: so the map shows finnland ? :)
  85. <stockholm> liiwi: not anwering moochs mail?
  86. <liiwi> h01ger: no, scandinavia + finland
  87. <liiwi> stockholm: have to talk to mooch to find out.
  88. <h01ger> liiwi: ok :)
  89. <stockholm> how can we make sure that we will not just be "frozen out" by that guy?
  90. * hrobak will be back on the channel in ~20 mins
  91. --- hrobak has left channel #debconf-team
  92. <stockholm> that we get there and everyone is on vacation and no one can make arrangements to fix stuff?
  93. <liiwi> stockholm: if you're talking about the head of CSD, we don't need anything from him anymore, afaik.
  94. <h01ger> stockholm, the video laptops are also unconfirmed at the moment ?
  95. <stockholm> liiwi: i talk about the networking boss
  96. <liiwi> stockholm: let's wait for mooch.
  97. <stockholm> h01ger: as far as i know they should be ok. but i asked today (after i heared about the servers) that they are checked
  98. <h01ger> stockholm, so i'll set the status to "should be ok" :)
  99. <stockholm> heh, yes
  100. --- ekix (eki@YZMMDCCCLXXXV.dsl.saunalahti.fi) has joined channel #debconf-team
  101. <stockholm> hi, ekix
  102. <ekix> hi
  103. <Q-FUNK> damicon entered the building
  104. <h01ger> could you please check the table (list of machines at debconf) at the botton of http://www.layer-acht.org/fai/fai-at-debconf5/ and tell me whats wrong and missing ?
  105. <stockholm> h01ger: looks good.
  106. <stockholm> i remember rumors about an ibm server
  107. * h01ger just asked svenl about the pegs
  108. <h01ger> stockholm, the other notebooks from intel are missing in this list.
  109. <stockholm> the ibm server should be a ppc64 smp machine
  110. <liiwi> Hey daveee, want to buy some pegs?
  111. <liiwi> <papa lazarous>
  112. <stockholm> h01ger: those are not "infrastructure" machines but leaves
  113. <ekix> liiwi, hi :)
  114. <liiwi> ekix: moro
  115. <h01ger> stockholm, i want ALL machines in this list. as fabbe wants all machines for insurance I want to plan the leaves as well. (they're less important yes, but still need care)
  116. <stockholm> h01ger: ok, add them, then (c:
  117. <h01ger> ok, and please tell me :) where those just two diffrent brands or two use cases as well ?
  118. <stockholm> h01ger: then you also forgot nchip's 250GB hd with network attached
  119. <stockholm> h01ger: can you pleaes rephrase that?
  120. <h01ger> i remember three different toshiba notebooks coming from intel ;) 1 type for video, the 2 others just get thrown out at people who requested them or were there other uses for them =
  121. <h01ger> s/=/?/
  122. <stockholm> h01ger: yes, that is what i frowarded to you and that is the information that i have so far
  123. <h01ger> stockholm, do you also remember who had the contacts to ibm (for the ppc64 server)
  124. <h01ger> stockholm, ok. i'll find that mail...
  125. <stockholm> h01ger: the noteboos were intended for the people who requested them
  126. <stockholm> h01ger: i think it was arto
  127. <stockholm> same as hp-contact
  128. <nchip> I also think it was Arto
  129. <stockholm> arto could not reach HP today
  130. <stockholm> he tried once
  131. <nchip> can we use bdale?
  132. <stockholm> nchip: no, he is not able to help as far as i know
  133. <stockholm> we talked about it allready
  134. <h01ger> arto has which nick ?
  135. <stockholm> not sure
  136. <nchip> that what I though too :(
  137. <stockholm> t..., i think
  138. * h01ger has updated http://www.layer-acht.org/fai/fai-at-debconf5/ again (with contacts to sponsors)
  139. <stockholm> h01ger: if i had cought him online during the last days i would perhaps know more.
  140. <DaCa-be> stockholm: teras ?
  141. <stockholm> no, it was more cryptic then that, i think
  142. <nchip> ateras
  143. * stockholm drums his fingers waiting for mooch
  144. <h01ger> so, if we get one (or two) 4cpus server from hp, the video team wants+needs one. at least. the whole streaming+editing thing is not really settled.
  145. <stockholm> and starts putting the list of volunteers together
  146. <h01ger> fabbe, are you around ?
  147. <stockholm> h01ger: can you tell me again why we need so much storage? why do we need the raw data?
  148. <Q-FUNK> h01ger: he's away all night
  149. <h01ger> stockholm, we calculated with 0.5tb a month or two ago. two weeks ago martinl raised the levels ;) thats basically all i know.
  150. <stockholm> h01ger: ok.
  151. --- h01ger has changed the topic on channel #debconf-team to "techmeeting - integration with comas - also see http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5TechMeetingAgenda
  152. <h01ger> stockholm, what do you ment exactly with that point ?
  153. <stockholm> h01ger: depending how secure we want to be, we need to hand out certs or keys to people
  154. <nchip> for wlan?
  155. <h01ger> for https or login ?
  156. <h01ger> nchip, for comas
  157. <stockholm> h01ger: or at least put stuff into radius for wps
  158. --- hrobak_ (herman@developer.skolelinux.no) has joined channel #debconf-team
  159. <stockholm> nchip: yes, for wlan for example.
  160. <h01ger> ahh... integrate the cert handling into comas ;)
  161. <h01ger> makes sense! :-) very much
  162. <stockholm> h01ger: we need at least a way to hand out the "trusted information"
  163. <h01ger> stockholm, yes.
  164. <stockholm> and comas is the only way we have for that right now.
  165. <stockholm> dondelelcaro: ?
  166. <stockholm> gwolf is busy right now.
  167. <stockholm> perhaps don can give us some insight
  168. <stockholm> i cant believe it: we seem to have only 5 finnish volunteers so far.
  169. <stockholm> i thought there was a sixth but i cant find him
  170. <stockholm> aparently i am loosing considerable parts of the workforce in my mailfolder. :-/
  171. <Q-FUNK> this is not a country of volunteers. they get drafted in, instead.
  172. <stockholm> lol. ok
  173. <nchip> can we setup a "volunteer2005@debconf.org" email account, which we can tell potential volunteers to announce themselfs?
  174. <stockholm> yes, sure. i bet it is 30sec work for liw.
  175. <nchip> currently it is not very clear where to send potential volunteers
  176. <tuukkah> a managing person would be better, right?
  177. <tuukkah> (ot: but where to find one...)
  178. <stockholm> tuukkah: well a managing person that finds tons of volunteers would be best (c:
  179. * h01ger wants to stay on topic (and rather have a break between this meeting and the next), but it's hard without mooch. on topic would be: physical network topology, logical network topology, how to install, how to update, integration with comas, video setup in the topologies...
  180. <h01ger> .oO( or have a break now )
  181. <stockholm> h01ger: no, we can continue with the how to install etc bit
  182. <stockholm> h01ger: the thing with the servers is that they need to interact with each other.
  183. <stockholm> nss-ldap and pam-ldap
  184. <h01ger> jup. from the 5 topics i have left, 3 have the word "topology" in them ;) which also includes inter-action ;)
  185. <stockholm> h01ger: if you can automate that before hand that would be best
  186. <nchip> so wlan will be protected with WPA? we'll need to start learning how to setup wpa_supllicant :E
  187. <Q-FUNK> iwconfig
  188. <stockholm> Q-FUNK: not quite. (c:
  189. <h01ger> secure wlan is a nice-to-have-feature on our list. if we dont make it, tunnel everything with ssh...
  190. <stockholm> nchip: we will provide a config snipplet
  191. --- h01ger has changed the topic on channel #debconf-team to "techmeeting - how to install the machines - also see http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5TechMeetingAgenda
  192. <stockholm> the address is volunteers@lists.debconf.org
  193. <nchip> which redirects the mails to where?
  194. <h01ger> i was thinking about using skolelinux (sarge) or sarge (for all machines). now i'm thinking more towards using sarge, that is, the normal installer cds/whatevers plus preseeding to get rid of most questions...
  195. <stockholm> h01ger: so ldap is quite important and we need to have tls to the ldap server
  196. <stockholm> nchip: it is a mailing list. at present i am subscribed
  197. * nchip subscribes
  198. <tuukkah> are outside posts allowed and should volunteers subscribe? and is the list public to subscribe or read archives?
  199. <stockholm> h01ger: what services do we want?
  200. <stockholm> tuukkah: not sure, ask liw.
  201. <h01ger> "tls to the server" means exactly ? port 636 ?
  202. <h01ger> tuukkah, stockholm, nchip: please discuss this later or somewhere else ;)
  203. <nchip> sorry :)
  204. <h01ger> stockholm, which services do we want were ? i also want to add those to the list (at layer-acht.org/fai/fai-at-debconf5). (it's super-easy (no work) to install those services on the machines with fai-softupdates after the install)
  205. <liiwi> tuukkah: moderated, and yes.
  206. * stockholm comes back from his son's good night procedure, sorry
  207. <stockholm> h01ger: pardon?
  208. <stockholm> what list?
  209. <stockholm> the table?
  210. <h01ger> yes
  211. <stockholm> heh, moment
  212. * stockholm checks the debian-edu services
  213. <h01ger> you might s/machines/clients/
  214. <h01ger> but even the server services are real easy to deploy... (just not super easy) :-)
  215. <stockholm> flood!
  216. <stockholm> *
  217. <stockholm> Centralized logging [syslog]
  218. <stockholm> *
  219. <stockholm> DNS(Bind?)[domain]
  220. <stockholm> *
  221. <stockholm> Automatic networkconfiguration of machines(DHCP)[bootps]
  222. <stockholm> *
  223. <stockholm> Clocksynchronization (NTP)[ntp]
  224. <stockholm> *
  225. <stockholm> Home directories via network file system (SMB/NFS/Appletalk)[homes]
  226. <stockholm> *
  227. <stockholm> Elektronic postoffice(Limacute) [postoffice]
  228. <stockholm> *
  229. <stockholm> Directoryservice(OpenLDAP)[ldap]
  230. <stockholm> *
  231. <stockholm> Webserver (Apache/PHP/eZ)[www]
  232. <stockholm> *
  233. <stockholm> SQL server (PostgreSQL)[database]
  234. <stockholm> *
  235. <stockholm> Central backup (?) [backup]
  236. <stockholm> *
  237. <stockholm> Web-cache / proxy (Squid)[webcache]
  238. <stockholm> *
  239. <stockholm> Printing(CUPS) [ipp]
  240. <stockholm> *
  241. <stockholm> Remote login (OpenSSH) [ssh]
  242. <stockholm> *
  243. <stockholm> Automatic configuring [cfengine]
  244. <stockholm> *
  245. <stockholm> Thin client servers (LTSP) [ltsp-server-\#]
  246. <stockholm> *
  247. <stockholm> Machine- and service surveillance with error reporting, + status and history on the web. Error reporting by mail.
  248. * hrobak_ is a bit uncertain about eZ and Limacute...
  249. <stockholm> we dont need the "Thin client servers" and the surveillance, and squid
  250. <stockholm> hrobak_: we need a mailserver.
  251. <h01ger> stockholm, that was not flood. that was marketing speech flood ;) - thanx for the list! :-)
  252. <stockholm> h01ger: just to give you ideas of what services are rather basic and most likely necessary
  253. <hrobak_> stockholm: Is Limacute there, and does it work out of the box? (I have not heard of any schools using it)
  254. <stockholm> hrobak_: i dont know
  255. <h01ger> stockholm, is this config allready installed (as i understand it, the machine is allready in use as the comas server (or a comas test server) or do we still have to install it ? for this server it might be sensible to install it with skolelinux sarge... but in general i would rather like to install plain sarge and tweak it with fai.
  256. <h01ger> s/it might be/is/
  257. <stockholm> h01ger: we might reinstall the server anyway, with amd64.
  258. <h01ger> and there is no amd64 port of skolelinux ? or is there ?
  259. <stockholm> h01ger: but that would mean that we cant install skolelinux as it exists today
  260. <h01ger> stockholm, ?
  261. <stockholm> yes: no amd64 port of debian edu
  262. <h01ger> ok :)
  263. <h01ger> ok, still should be no big problem as we can rip the configs from an x86 install ;) (or start debianedu amd64 ;)
  264. <stockholm> h01ger: for some parts you need to configure both client and server.
  265. <liiwi> sfs for homedirs
  266. <stockholm> agreed
  267. <h01ger> sfs ? samba ?
  268. <stockholm> liiwi: can you supply configs?
  269. <stockholm> h01ger: secure file system
  270. <liiwi> uh, no configs needed, exports at most
  271. <stockholm> unfortunatly afs is still not included.
  272. <h01ger> whats the debian package for sfs ?
  273. <stockholm> h01ger: so you will prepare fai configs for the server and of the clients?
  274. <liiwi> sfs-{server,client}
  275. <stockholm> someone needs to write some documentation for people to use, how to tie into the network
  276. <h01ger> stockholm, yes. i'll prepare some configs and instructions and give svn commit access to people who need it. and i have svn commit mails activated so i can monitor all commits.
  277. <stockholm> what about radius and wpa?
  278. <h01ger> liiwi, thanx.
  279. <h01ger> liiwi, stockholm: have you read the bits about fai on layer-acht.org/fai/fai-at-debconf/ ?
  280. <stockholm> i never set up radius
  281. <nchip> does radius need to be available, when intel people come to setup wlan?
  282. <h01ger> i'll work on the fai configdir (and docs how to "play" with it) from thursday til saturday, as i have other work tommorrow and the day after.
  283. <stockholm> nchip: i dont know if that is needed. i dont know much more then what it provides. not how it works or how it ties in with other services
  284. --- teroajk (~teroajk@GMMCCCXLV.dsl.saunalahti.fi) has joined channel #debconf-team
  285. <stockholm> teroajk: ahhh!
  286. <liiwi> morjens
  287. <stockholm> teroajk: ibm server? hp server?
  288. <teroajk> stockholm: ateras perhaps?
  289. <stockholm> lol
  290. <teroajk> stockholm: You seem to confuse us two a lot ;)
  291. <stockholm> i will learn
  292. <stockholm> i see you two too infrequently!
  293. <stockholm> anyone with radius expertise who could set that up?
  294. * liiwi hides
  295. <stockholm> ah, thanks!
  296. <liiwi> need local box running for htat
  297. * stockholm drags liiwi to the stage
  298. <liiwi> and where do we get passwords?
  299. <stockholm> liiwi: from comas
  300. <liiwi> sql?
  301. <stockholm> liiwi: tell our comas people what you need. you could tie in directly into postgresql
  302. <liiwi> who are they?
  303. <stockholm> gwolf@d.o and don@d.o
  304. * liiwi suspects the schemas do not match at all
  305. <h01ger> installation and updates are clear to me now, to you as well ?
  306. <stockholm> make a view (c:
  307. <liiwi> with different hashes..
  308. <liiwi> mmm, hash
  309. <stockholm> perhaps we shoudl not use nss-ldap but nss-psql? does it exist?
  310. <h01ger> which leads to three topics left: physical topology, logical topology, video
  311. <liiwi> MOOCH, HERE NOW
  312. <stockholm> amazing how he manages to miss key meetings with top precision.
  313. <stockholm> (c:
  314. <h01ger> stockholm, i dunno for sure if i completly understand: but i rather dont want the sql-db exposed to the whole network...
  315. <stockholm> no, me either.
  316. <stockholm> ldap would be better for that.
  317. <h01ger> but wouldnt nss-psql mean exactly that ?
  318. <stockholm> liiwi: can radius bind to ldap, too?
  319. <liiwi> yes, or pam
  320. <stockholm> nss and pam are not the same things
  321. <stockholm> you need both
  322. <liiwi> I know
  323. <slef> stockholm++
  324. <stockholm> (c:
  325. <stockholm> sorry
  326. <stockholm> *giggle*
  327. --- h01ger has changed the topic on channel #debconf-team to "techmeeting - waiting for mooch (physical topology, logical topology, video) - also see http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5TechMeetingAgenda and http://layer-acht.org/fai/fai-at-debconf5/
  328. * h01ger takes a break^Hth
  329. * h01ger proposes to take a break til 19 UTC and declare this meeting finished.
  330. <stockholm> ok
  331. * stockholm reads the "graphical installer" thread and falls over laughing